TPA
Trade: Tiger Paw
An election win?
Corbyn sceptics, what do you think of him now (part II)?
- Thread starter richardg
- Start date
An election win?
Tigerjones
Bagpuss
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Sorry, at what? He's done very well Sean, but a heck of lot of that youth vote is very pro-remain. To be honest this hung result is possibly better than winning as he won't get the direct blame for Brexit and it's quite right that those responsible do.
If these Tory Brexit clowns get enough wrong in the lead up to the next election it could play well for him to slide off his former position in the meantime. But as things stand, his current position on Brexit won't do it for a large section of his new support and that will matter at some stage. It could be, of course, that his liking for these votes will outweigh his dislike of the EU. We shall see.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
ff1d1l
pfm Member
You're kidding me...hi-ris jackets all round...
Lee T
pfm Member
By what means?
Truth or lies, we will soon find out
If past Tory election campaigns are anything to go by I would err towards the latter.
Cameron was also all for social justice, the poor will be better off, we will not be taking from the poor in this country, remember this back in 2010, it's etched on my brain, all lies, he decided instead to do the exact opposite.
TPA
Trade: Tiger Paw
She won nothing.
Despite her best efforts, she narrowly failed to lose....
This is true, and I'm not a fan.
The way forward for Labour is to find a more broadly acceptable and polished leader for the party (problem, I know) and keep Corbyn as the champion of the people. They would win the next election.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
I suspect developing a coherent Brexit position would prove as difficult for today's Labour Party as coming up with an Obamacare "repeal and replace" package is proving to be for the Republicans in the US: the only thing a fractured party can agree on is that it doesn't like the other side's plan. Try to pin them down on specifics and all the factions go their own separate ways.
My guess is Labour will try to muddle on. The joys of being HM's Opposition.
My guess is Labour will try to muddle on. The joys of being HM's Opposition.
richardg
Admonishtrator
I thought it looked quite clear on the mandate. Out but in the single market. That's a position, isn't it?
Corbyn has a strong mandate to be leader of the labour party because he only lost by 50 seats. PM he is not !
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Another opportunity is coming soon. By then, the economic picture will have worsened considerably.
Seanm
pfm Member
Oh yes he is.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Just out of interest, exactly who in the PLP do you think would have put up a superior performance? And who might do better as leader in the event of an election called again at short notice, a not completely unlikely scenario?
Do you have a name for someone in the PLP who has increased membership in the way Corbyn has? By orders of magnitude? Motivated a generation written off politically? It is now cool to be political - read left - amongst the young - you should see my son's facebook.
Although this board is generally speaking hard on the "achievements" of the Tory party, let's not forget the career-politician backstabbing against Corbyn that went on in the PLP in the not too recent past - one of the evils of our age - the jobsworth politician and their suppression of the idealist.
I'm not uncritical of Corbyn - I resigned from the party over LP support of the surveillance bill, and invoking article 50 - I still haven't re-joined. However, credit where credit is due, Corbyn has been beyond impressive to get himself and the party where they are now, and to say he lacks the political skill needed in a prime minister is to willfully ignore these abilities.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I don't place much faith in any current political party. It is a matter of degrees of awfulness. In my opinion the conservatives are, most particularly following the wing-clipping that they received in the election, markedly less awful a prospect than the newly emboldened Labour party under Corbyn, McConnell and Abbott. However, and that apart, this thread is about Jeremy Corbyn.
Merlin, we have all seen these articles, and are fully aware of the JC's official stance during the referendum. However I have pointed out that Corbyn is instinctively and historically anti-EU. He comes from the left wing of the Labour party which was traditionally anti-EU, and was extremely close to Tony Benn, whom he is said to have regarded as his mentor. Tony Benn saw the EU as fundamentally undemocratic, and believed that it would destroy our parliamentary democracy and turn the UK into a vassal state. More privately he saw the EU as the anvil upon which what we now identify as the neolibs would build their new world order. Corbyn did vote against membership in 1975, he did vote against Masstricht, and he did vote against Lisbon.
Since becoming leader of the Labour party, rather than having the courage of his much vaunted convictions, he rolled over to the demands of the now die-hard pro-EU modern Labour Party, a conversion itself cynically undertaken by NuLab when Blair recognised the opportunities that it offered to exploit then as now euro-factionalised Tories. Whilst on the subject of cynical, Corbyn then deleted all of the archives of his speeches and other material, the better to conceal from the world his somewhat unsuitable past, and to facilitate his reinvention as the weirdly shiny new Jesus 'cuddly' Corbyn that people like you are falling over themselves in their contortions to convince the more sceptical amongst us that he is the new messiah.
All of which conveniently disguises the fact that the Labour party is torn asunder by Brexit. Whilst in sheer numbers Labour voters were, as you point out from Ashcroft's research, 62:38 in favour of remain (YouGov finds 65:35, so even more), in constituency terms, a significant proportion of Labour regions outside of London and the major cities voted in equal or greater proportions to leave, and the reasons cited were control of immigration and repatriation of law-making from Brussels. This included swathes of the traditional industrial regions of the NW, NE and Midlands. Against this the parliamentary Labour party (and metropolitan Labour) were overwhelmingly for remain, which has faced the Labour policymakers with a conundrum, and forced their hand on Brexit. Labour is therefore officially pro-Brexit and pro-immigration control, which basically means they are pro-'hard' Brexit.
Just a tiny bit of research on your part is all that's needed to become relatively informed.
You can be quite extraordinarily supercilious, self-satisfied and smug at times, Merlin, yet you seem sometimes to be almost completely unable to distinguish between facts, truths and mere opinions, and you have this ugly left-wing absolutist contempt for anyone whose opinion differs from your own. It is very, very unattractive.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Ohhhh...I don't know....I'd snog Merlin but think you might be the wallflower ET...