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Considering a move from Genelec 8030Cs to 8331As

Alex S said:
Since nobody volunteered listening to both, I have a home dem (slightly embarrassing given my drawing the line thread). So far I would say the leap in quality is commensurate with the leap in price (and I've only flicked a dip-switch or two, no GLM, yet). The scale, clarity, speed, imaging, surprising bass (well controlled), all there. Bigger sweet spot, good for family films. I had a go with the baby Tannoys and always knew that a mid-field coaxial might be the thing for me.

I would agree with some reviews that there's a slight dip in the lower mid-range. they measure pretty flat, obviously, and apparently the brain compensates for this dip naturally, so who knows. The source seems to matter! - The Audial S4 is a lovely partner, as is a Technics with a DV xx2, my Toppings and Eversolo a bit in yer face. I’m not really blaming the Toppings, these are just ruthless monitors.

The question for me is twofold: They are a lot of money and the 8030s are very good; how much do you wish to know how drunk the bass player or the third violinist are? The second question I can answer by moving to my valve based system, the first is likely to cost me that lot of money. It's no justification but the baby Tannoys, a couple of subs (definitely needed), and the amps to drive them, would cost a lot more than these Genelecs.
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Interesting impressions, thank you for sharing. I don't know if you find the same but in my room the 8030Cs have a very full/present lower mid-range (200Hz-500Hz), a touch too much for my liking as I find it clouds what's going on above this (I use EQ to reduce this area by 1 or 2 dBs). I also notice an elevation between 1kHz-2kHz that I also like to tame a little for a slightly more 'laid-back' delivery. In your room, how do the 8331s compare to the 8030Cs in these two areas? FWIW my room is pretty well treated but I have nothing on my ceiling. I do intend to treat the ceiling, once I convince my dad that having >50kgs worth of treatment suspended above my head isn't going to end in tears!
 
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I think that illustrates how much the room matters. If anything, I have a slight dip where you have the hump, not so noticeably with the 8030s but with the 8331s. There is also a slight bias to the right channel (I'll swap them over to rule out a speaker difference). Regardless of measurements, I suspect both models have the elevation you describe. I quite like it. There is no doubt in my mind the 8331 is a more accurate tool, and surprisingly more room-filling. That brings mixed blessings but it's difficult to give up once heard.

My room is far from perfect but it has inherited some RPG treatment from my studio (absorbers and skylines/diffusors, no bass traps), which was truly horrible acoustically. Nothing sounded good there - I had Neat MF9s and JBL subs, full mains treatment, and they grossly underperformed. A well furnished living space with some treatment was a godsend. Moving nearer field helps significantly in either space. The sub (SVS) seems to integrate better with the 8331s with little effort.

My music taste has changed over the years. I still like classic rock but I'm probably 60% classical these days with a healthy dose of electronic and bouts of Faithless, Yello and so on, a dollop of jazz, as well as female vocal. I haven't tried the latter yet but for the rest, the 8331 is more enjoyable than the 8030, largely due to scale, clarity and pinpoint imaging. So far I've only trimmed the bass by 2dB, something not necessary with the 8030s. If I keep them I'll get the GLM kit.

Clearly having pretty ruthless monitors is a mixed blessing in a domestic hi-fi but I'd rather my bad recordings sound bad and my good ones sound good. If I listened predominantly to rock instead of classical I'd probably think differently. Instrument tone and timbre are very important to me and both Genelecs are good in this area relative to passive speakers I've had. If it all gets too much I still have the respite of a valve based system in the same room.

All in all, I will likely keep the 8331s. The ASR brigade eulogise Genelecs but moan about the SPLs of the smaller ones unless they're sat on a desk. I don't know what SPLs they listen at but I'm around 75dB max average and 85dB peaks. At these levels either Genelec model is no problem at around 2m distance. The 8331 pretty much fills the room in this context, especially if you add a sub or two obviously, about as much as my much larger passive speakers. The 8030s, and all passive mini-monitors I've had or have: ProAc, Shahinian, Audio Note, AE1s etc, sound considerably smaller. The 8331s paint a pretty big but very precise picture, with a large coaxial sweet spot. I also work in this space, being able to move around without everything collapsing is an attractive proposition.
 
Interesting. As you know, I'm also using the 8030s and although I find no real reason to change, it is useful to know what the next step up might be like. I think the only scenario by which I'd change the 8030s right now would be if my computer monitors (Alesis actives) were to die; the 8030s would be a shoe-in (and much better I imagine) so I wouldn't be selling them. But I imagine the Alesis speakers will last a while yet.

Are the 8331s much bigger or heavier than the 8030s?
 
They are about a kg heavier (an extra amp, being a 3 way) a fraction taller, same width and a few cm deeper. Either way, they sit on the same isopod so take the same space.

I suggest you stay well clear of any audition.
 
I had a pair of 8010’s and even they could play very convincingly at 3 meters in my living room. Using the hpf at 100hz and paired with subs, they performed very well and loud, if lacking resolution compared to bigger more expensive monitors.
I’d imagine the 8331’s do very well at some distance.
 
I was amazed how big the 8030Cs sounded when I first set them up in my parents' large living room. Listening to them from just over two meters away, night and day doesn't do justice to how much bigger, more effortless and more resolving they sounded than the S3/5R2 I had on hand to compare them to. I know it's not fair to compare a ported active design to a sealed passive but it only took a few minutes of listening to decide that I was done with passive mini monitors. The 8030Cs go as loud as I need them to in my smaller 4.2m x 3.8m listening room. I drive them as loud as I drive my big Dittons and Tannoys and even without high-passing them they don't show signs of strain (not that I can notice at least). I am however still tempted to upgrade to the 83xx. The 8331s are at a price I'm comfortable justifying but I do worry whether I'd get buyers remorse down the line by not shelling out for a larger 83xx model, as I do feel at the moment having bought the 8030s instead of the 8331s!*.

* I actually purchased the 8030s to use as desktop speakers. It was only the fact that they were too big for my table that I decided to try them in my main system!
 
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My room is around 6m x 4m. I’m also 2m away. I’m listening at approx 65dB average, 75dB peak (loud enough for female vocals). My usual is around 75dB average.

Without being long winded, the best I can say is 8030s sound like big small speakers whereas the 8331s give no sense of being small speakers at all until you stare at them.

The imaging is also spectacular. One clear downside is my leaner sources sound less good than my warmer ones. If I keep the 8331s, and it’s going to take monumental will not to, I’ll be playing my vinyl and digital via my Audial dac more than I was with the 8030s. They’re just better sources anyway, regardless of warm or lean - maybe the 8331s are just showing that. All this without using the GLM software, yet.

I can neither accommodate nor afford bigger Ones, maybe you can but I’d try the small ones first. If you’re ever near Greenwich you’re welcome to pop round but I may have lent my 8030s to a mate by then.
 
JTC said:
Interesting. As you know, I'm also using the 8030s and although I find no real reason to change, it is useful to know what the next step up might be like.
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I have 8020s, 8030s (both for nearfield listening in different rooms), and Kii Threes (in the lounge).

For me, the "next step" is going from the Genelecs to the Kiis. Of course, that's also a "next (big) step" in terms of £££, but the performance is otherworldly. I'll be very interested to hear what the "little" Kii Seven sounds like when it finally arrives. It's half the price of its big brother and an entire system in one, which helps ameliorate the price.

I do know, however, that it's going to be very, very difficult to beat the 8030s on VFM - a pair of bullet proof, great sounding, active speakers for 1K. They'd sell crate loads if only you could find them in "hi-fi" shops. My local hi-fi dealer has never heard of Genelec but I've been aware of them in studios for >40 years. Couldn't believe how small some of the were when I first ran across them in Rose Morris, Denmark Street eons ago. I thought they were expensive, but then I got into "hi-fi"...
 
Alex S said:
My room is around 6m x 4m. I’m also 2m away. I’m listening at approx 65dB average, 75dB peak (loud enough for female vocals). My usual is around 75dB average.

Without being long winded, the best I can say is 8030s sound like big small speakers whereas the 8331s give no sense of being small speakers at all until you stare at them.

The imaging is also spectacular. One clear downside is my leaner sources sound less good than my warmer ones. If I keep the 8331s, and it’s going to take monumental will not to, I’ll be playing my vinyl and digital via my Audial dac more than I was with the 8030s. They’re just better sources anyway, regardless of warm or lean - maybe the 8331s are just showing that. All this without using the GLM software, yet.

I can neither accommodate nor afford bigger Ones, maybe you can but I’d try the small ones first. If you’re ever near Greenwich you’re welcome to pop round but I may have lent my 8030s to a mate by then.
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If you can afford the 8331 and have the space then the price jump from the 8331 to the 8341 is quite tempting (just under 25%). The jump from the 8341 to the 8351 by comparison is inexplicably massive (almost 60%!). The jump from the 8351 to the 8361 is back to a more reasonable 25%.
 
I agree, but my secondary speakers have to sit on top of my primaries. In your position I'd certainly want to try the 8341 as well as the 8331. Nonetheless, my point still stands, at 2m I don't think I'd want more than the 8331 since I need neither greater SPLs nor bass extension. Rather the opposite, in fact.

I really like my Zu Druids (most people hate them) with a Leak ST20. If I didn't, I'd probably try and sell the lot and get 8361s and be done with it. Having done so, I'd probably want the 8331s back - I like mini-monitors instinctively.

Trying Kiis/Dutch & Dutch/ATC/Geithain/Neumann against Genelecs would be interesting as well. I've heard none apart from ATC50s quite often. I know ATC owners tend to disagree but they came alive for me at SPLs higher than I (or my neighbours) would like.
 
Alex S said:
The imaging is also spectacular. One clear downside is my leaner sources sound less good than my warmer ones. If I keep the 8331s, and it’s going to take monumental will not to, I’ll be playing my vinyl and digital via my Audial dac more than I was with the 8030s. They’re just better sources anyway, regardless of warm or lean - maybe the 8331s are just showing that. All this without using the GLM software, yet.
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if a digital preamp was used, both your DAC and the ADC in the 8331s could be skipped, with the potential for even better sound with digital sources.
 
Sorry, I’m a bit dim, but how would I play vinyl, or multiple sources, and how would I skip the dac?
 
Alex S said:
Sorry, I’m a bit dim, but how would I play vinyl, or multiple sources, and how would I skip the dac?
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The 8331s have DACs built in, so you only need a unit that switches digital sources and has a volume control for digital inputs. The speakers also have a built in ADC, but only one XLR socket for either analogue or AES digital, however IIRC the input may auto-switch if you use some kind of XLR combiner and you turn off the unused type of source. The bigger 'Ones' have separate analogue and digital inputs. However, you would need a separate analogue volume control, and switching if you have more than one analogue source. More practical would be digitising the analogue source first, since the speaker digitises it anyway, and then running it as a digital source through a digital preamp. The obvious choice, particularly if you wanted to add subs, would be the MiniDSP SHD, although if not, a Wiim Pro Plus and an SPDIF auto-switcher might do enough.
 
Alex S said:
Not sure if you mean one of each but that’s what they have. I fear I’m too analogue for your suggestions but certainly something to ponder.
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Just the one dual-purpose input on the 8331. The other XLR is the digital output to the other speaker of the pair. The input will switch digital to analogue and vice-versa if you have them both connected to the input, depending on which one is sending signal.

Running two alternative sets of speakers, one active, one passive, does make it tricky to use the digital input conveniently, but it's the best way to use the speakers with digital sources, from a technical POV at least. With analogue sources, the difference is dependant on whether an outboard ADC, if one is used, is better or worse than the speaker's own.

This is a very interesting thread for me, as my ATCs may need to be replaced by something smaller when we move house, and I also have 8030s. Those sound good in the living room, but a bit more output and even better sound would be welcome, so 8331s or 8431 are potentially a very good option.
 
The 8331 is not 3.5 times better than the 8030, obviously, but once heard it’s difficult to go back. The point source and clever 3-way makes a real difference, and that’s before you take advantage of the other features.

They are monitors so there’s a warts ‘n all presentation with respect to sources and recordings, more so than the 8030, but you’re used to that. Which ATCs do you have?
 
I don't bother with test tracks anymore, just play what I want to listen to. But tonight I wanted to listen to Nick Cave. I stuck on Let Love In, vinyl and CD for fun, and the first track Do You Love Me? has ruined most systems I've played it on, including my own. Not now. I think it's the clarity, speed, separation without being disjointed, placement and the complete removal of hash and noise that isn't on the recording that does it.
 
Alex S said:
The 8331 is not 3.5 times better than the 8030, obviously, but once heard it’s difficult to go back. The point source and clever 3-way makes a real difference, and that’s before you take advantage of the other features.

They are monitors so there’s a warts ‘n all presentation with respect to sources and recordings, more so than the 8030, but you’re used to that. Which ATCs do you have?
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SCM40As, so pretty big boots to fill. I may not sell them, but it's looking likely, as I'm trying to pare everything back as much as I'm comfortable with ahead of the move. Hi-fi, books, records... The 8030s are surprisingly good at about 2.75m, but naturally the ATCs have plenty in reserve at my usual volumes, while the 8030s are having to work a bit, obviously lack some bass extension, relatively speaking, and lack a bit of clarity. It would be nice to keep the small form-factor of the 8030s with the 8331s, but the 8340/ 8341 size would be OK. Next thing is to try the 8030s with subs, and have a play with different crossover frequencies and room correction.
 
Toaster said:
SCM40As, so pretty big boots to fill. I may not sell them, but it's looking likely, as I'm trying to pare everything back as much as I'm comfortable with ahead of the move. Hi-fi, books, records... The 8030s are surprisingly good at about 2.75m, but naturally the ATCs have plenty in reserve at my usual volumes, while the 8030s are having to work a bit, obviously lack some bass extension, relatively speaking, and lack a bit of clarity. It would be nice to keep the small form-factor of the 8030s with the 8331s, but the 8340/ 8341 size would be OK. Next thing is to try the 8030s with subs, and have a play with different crossover frequencies and room correction.
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Really interesting. Similarly, I occasionally look at what I would do if I had to downsize from the ATC SCM50A.

I did note that that the Genelec 8341A is a better match for peak SPL and I do want to be startled when a pianist hits a key hard [1]. The larger 8050B is needed for similar peak SPL. In reality I don't know what capability is enough, especially if in a smaller room, but I don't ever want to discover that I don't have enough dynamic range, and not approaching too closely to the limit is good for maintaining audio clarity.

The alternative, a subwoofer with something smaller with lower peak SPL capability (e.g. an 8030/8331 or an ATC pro range active), is also in my mind but I have not really looked at that yet. The simpler solution with fewer boxes seems more attractive for now.

[1] BTW the specified peak SPL from your SCM40A is the same as from my SCM50A. I have found the SCM50A to be enough for me (and possibly overkill) in a 6.6 m x 3.6 m room, also sitting 2.75 m away.
 
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