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Confused about Tannoy

cooky1257 said:
This was posted on another form https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Hi-Fi-Choice-UK.htm
The late 70's early 80's reviews of Tannoys are an interesting (ahem) read, I remember thinking at the time these reviewers must be deaf. They didn't like Quad electrostatics either!
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Well vintage Tannoys can sound pretty crap with the wrong amps.The vast majority of transistor amps from their era were a bad electrical match-too much negative feedback and too low output impedance.They overdamped them and the SS amps of that time tended to have very coarse zingy sounding treble which the Tannoy compression drivers really exposed. [and still do].
In my opinion the best thing that has happened for Tannoy owners is the Chinese Dartzeel NHB 108 power amp copies.They seem to be a perfect match.Over the years I have tried dozens of amps -push pull valve/SETs/vintage /modern/high end Japanese SS Accuphase,Luxman etc andby far the best I have heard them is with the Dartzeel copy.Would be nice to have the real thing of course but they are nearly the price of a new Landcruiser.
 
Nah, no SS for Tannoys… the “match made in heaven” for vintage Tannoys , in particular … are any PrimaLuna amps , but…especially …Evo 400 monoblocks, coupled with Tannoy Ardens. Have a pair of ‘76 Ardens with above mentioned PLs. Glorious, effortless sound.
 
Locheeboy said:
Nah, no SS for Tannoys… the “match made in heaven” for vintage Tannoys , in particular … are any PrimaLuna amps , but…especially …Evo 400 monoblocks, coupled with Tannoy Ardens. Have a pair of ‘76 Ardens with above mentioned PLs. Glorious, effortless sound.
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Yeah I have a pair of Westminsters running on a single EVO400 poweramp. It's epic. It's not my main system...so it's built in to a wall unit of sorts. But when you monoblock PrimaLuna amps they get even better. The output impedance drops and of course, power doubles. I wish I would have done so when we designed the unit. Grrrr. I would put a pair of EVO400s up against cost-no-object amps. The output transformers are perfect. Shit.

I also have stashed away a pair of Kingdom Royale, which have Supertweeters. But Fyne just came out with their patented Supertrax Super Tweeter, which radiates 360 degrees. I'm hoping they will build THAT into their latest 15" with their fabulous new waveguide and driver design. They cross over the HF at 750hz. Wow.
 
Locheeboy said:
Nah, no SS for Tannoys… the “match made in heaven” for vintage Tannoys , in particular … are any PrimaLuna amps , but…especially …Evo 400 monoblocks, coupled with Tannoy Ardens. Have a pair of ‘76 Ardens with above mentioned PLs. Glorious, effortless sound.
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Probably exactly what I would have said a few years ago.Until I heard very good SS amps like the Bakoon and Darrtzeel [copy] which have highish output impedance and zero negative feedback by SS standards.Push pull valve amps do tend to work well with vintage Tannoys but it has almost nothing to do with them using valves or output transformers.It is because they have the right output impedance to suit the Tannoys so they do not overdamp them.As do the SS amps Ihave mentioned. I have also used SETs but they underdamp them because their output impedance is too high.
 
hifinutt said:
must get a listen sometime . been 2 pairs of kensingtons at dealers for months and months but they are not cheap 13k and 8k [ hifiguy and winters audio ]
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I've looked at the hifiguy listing for 13K. They are a steal for three reasons:

1) They are brand new, never been used.

2) They were built a few years ago, so more than likely at Coatbridge. You can check this. The QC document will be dated.

3) A brand new pair built recently will cost £20,000.

I don't live far from you if you would like a listen.


Tannoy Kensington GR – Hifi Guy

New never used and still boxed up (library picture featured) purchased by us brand new several years ago now surplus stock.
hifiguy.co.uk hifiguy.co.uk
 
Steven Toy said:
I've looked at the hifiguy listing for 13K. They are a steal for three reasons:

1) They are brand new, never been used.

2) They were built a few years ago, so more than likely at Coatbridge. You can check this. The QC document will be dated.

3) A brand new pair built recently will cost £20,000.

I don't live far from you if you would like a listen.


Tannoy Kensington GR – Hifi Guy

New never used and still boxed up (library picture featured) purchased by us brand new several years ago now surplus stock.
hifiguy.co.uk hifiguy.co.uk
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thanks steven
thats really kind of you , its on my to do list !!!

and yes agree hifi guys are good vfm , actually he supplied my eatons but sadly is no longer a tannoy dealer
 
Kevin Deal said:
Yeah I have a pair of Westminsters running on a single EVO400 poweramp. It's epic. It's not my main system...
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You have a pair of Westminsters and it's "not your main system"? That's a bit like saying that you have a Mercedes S500 "but it's not your main car". Nice problem to have.
What "main system" shades a pair of Westminsters? Mick and the boys turning up in the lounge, tuning up and plugging in?
 
Tony L said:
That’s the line in the sand for me. I detest what Behringer has done to every brand he’s touched, and the ones he’s killed by blatant plagiarism/forgery. I say that as someone who owns a proper pair of London-made Tannoys (15” Monitor Golds) and an American-made Moog Voyager synth. In slightly different ways he killed both companies IMHO. On my personal blacklist for sure.
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Hey Tony I don't work in pro audio. What do you mean by Moog etc?
 
stevec67 said:
You have a pair of Westminsters and it's "not your main system"? That's a bit like saying that you have a Mercedes S500 "but it's not your main car". Nice problem to have.
What "main system" shades a pair of Westminsters? Mick and the boys turning up in the lounge, tuning up and plugging in?
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My living room is horrible because it has 18' ceilings. We do play music there, but it's also where the TV is mounted. I brought a pair of Wstminster home, wondering how my wife Miss Laura would react. She loved it, so I knew I married the right woman. But still, the space isn't great for listening. By the way...when we started dating I had four tube power amps, two preamps, a pair of JL F113 subs and speakers in my bedroom. She knew what she was getting into.

I'm getting older so after 45 years working in HiFi we bought a house where I could have a large, dedicated soundroom. It's something I always wanted. I have a pair of Focal Grand Utopia, and will be adding six packs of REL N32 when I can breathe.

I'm running Pathos Inpol Adrenalin monoblocks and will be adding another pair. Inpol is amazing. I love the stuff. They sound different than any amp on the market. Each amp is 200w Class A, and as I recall, they draw 8 amps each continuously.

Someone mentions the Chinese clone of Dartzeel. I'd like to hear more about that and where they are sourced. The ones on Aliexpress look similar. Not the same.

I was not aware that Dartzeel had a higher output impedance. No negative feedback, but it ain't like tubes.
 
stevec67 said:
Really? You're into music and can don't know Moog? Moog was an early (one of the originals) synth, key to 80s music. A legendary item, see also Fender Rhodes. Another legend.
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Of course I know Moog. Sorry I didn't communicate clearly. I was not aware of anything that occurred between Moog and Behringer. I think something happened with Mackie?
 
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Kevin Deal said:
My living room is horrible because it has 18' ceilings. We do play music there, but it's also where the TV is mounted. I brought a pair of Wstminster home, wondering how my wife Miss Laura would react. She loved it, so I knew I married the right woman. But still, the space isn't great for listening. By the way...when we started dating I had four tube power amps, two preamps, a pair of JL F113 subs and speakers in my bedroom. She knew what she was getting into.

I'm getting older so after 45 years working in HiFi we bought a house where I could have a large, dedicated soundroom. It's something I always wanted. I have a pair of Focal Grand Utopia, and will be adding six packs of REL N32 when I can breathe.

I'm running Pathos Inpol Adrenalin monoblocks and will be adding another pair. Inpol is amazing. I love the stuff. They sound different than any amp on the market. Each amp is 200w Class A, and as I recall, they draw 8 amps each continuously.

Someone mentions the Chinese clone of Dartzeel. I'd like to hear more about that and where they are sourced. The ones on Aliexpress look similar. Not the same.

I was not aware that Dartzeel had a higher output impedance. No negative feedback, but it ain't like tubes.
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Stereophile measured the output impedance of the NHB108 to be around 0.44 ohms.That is quite high for a SS amp.The typical Krell for example is around 0.018 ohms.Push pull valve amps are closer to 1-1.5 ohm [the Prima Luna Dialogue is 1.1 ohm and SETs are more like 5 ohms.
When they simulated a speaker load the frequency response deviated from flat by +/- 0.26 db.That is more typical of valve amps and quite unusual for a SS amp.So electrically you could probably say they behave more like a push pull valve amp than a typical SS one.To me that is also how they sound.Or perhaps more like half way between a push pull valve amp and a SS amp.
 
Elephantears said:
As someone who uses a pair of Legacy Eatons (UK made), one thing in particular puzzles me about the replacement models. They are deep rather than wide, just like BBC style boxes. That can make a big difference. I've found that both my 70s Eatons and Legacy Eatons are much easier to position close to a back wall than most of the speakers I used before. There are several reasons for this, but lack of depth is one.
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I have a pair of UK built Legacy Eatons and love the sound. I suspect the replacement range have deeper cabinets because that's what the market expects. Wide and shallow boxes went out of favour within the hi-fi market many decades ago. I suspect this is the driver for the box change.
I suspect the legacy range didn't sell well. I picked mine up new for half retail and there were plenty on clearance at the time.

There are reasons why wide baffles are good, and if you can get good results closer to the wall well that's a bonus.

Mine do a fine job as part of a speaker collection where I want to use smaller amps, like the Sugden A21.
 
Surely the whole wide/narrow baffle thing can’t really be viewed as anything other than lifestyle fashion/marketing with a dual-concentric unit where the tweeter is compression driver horn-loaded by the bass driver? The normal baffle diffraction issues of small narrow speakers just aren’t there as horns are controlled in dispersion. That said I’d not expect Uli Behringer to understand anything about Tannoy beyond the marketing value of the badge.
 
Tony L said:
Surely the whole wide/narrow baffle thing can’t really be viewed as anything other than lifestyle fashion/marketing with a dual-concentric unit where the tweeter is compression driver horn-loaded by the bass driver? The normal baffle diffraction issues of small narrow speakers just aren’t there as horns are controlled in dispersion. That said I’d not expect Uli Behringer to understand anything about Tannoy beyond the marketing value of the badge.
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Does baffle diffraction not affect the bass driver too?
 
Tony L said:
Surely the whole wide/narrow baffle thing can’t really be viewed as anything other than lifestyle fashion/marketing with a dual-concentric unit where the tweeter is compression driver horn-loaded by the bass driver? The normal baffle diffraction issues of small narrow speakers just aren’t there as horns are controlled in dispersion. That said I’d not expect Uli Behringer to understand anything about Tannoy beyond the marketing value of the badge.
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Agreed but wide baffles bring benefits to baffle step compensation. Tiny narrow boxes push the baffle step frequency higher which costs efficiency when corrected in crossover.
 
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