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Come on Sonos get a grip!!

If not hi res can't they offer a better quality digital output, async USB ?

Had a Sonos for a few years until I used a laptop computer USB to dac, and it was easily distinguishable far better. And once you hear the difference you can't go back' even if the dam thing is great to use. Really miss the integration of Spotify, radio stations and play list builders.
 
Bigbobby666 said:
This would seem to be the answer, cut and dry!
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I've always wondered why sonos has been so resistant to hi-res. it must have been something absolutely fundamental to the architecture. 20bit sounds quite plausible.

On the other hand, surely you would think there was a case for developing a hi-res offering, especially as pretty much all the competition have it already.
 
intothevoid said:
On the other hand, surely you would think there was a case for developing a hi-res offering, especially as pretty much all the competition have it already.
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We on this forum are the minority... The people that, as we type here on PFM, type on Facebook are the majority; that is where the big money is. Simplicity and accessibility is the market that they are going for.

Think of the amount of people that actually cant see the difference between HD TV and SD its the same with audio, only the minority care. Most will have Spotify / iTunes libraries and will be totally oblivious of file format or compatability.
 
Alan Sircom said:
I think Sonos hardware runs on a 20-bit architecture. If so, going to 24-bit would be a fairly significant re-working of the Sonos system, and would be unlikely to realise sales large enough to justify the root-and-branch changes required.

Not forgetting that every single Sonos user up until the time a 24-bit system was launched would be left high and dry with what they felt was second-class Sonos.

Finally, Sonos appears to be pushing the integrated speaker units controlled by smartphones instead of a part of a 'legacy' audio system. Although it rebranded Sonos Connect and Connect:Amp, development seems to be concentrated on the Play and Playbar lines now. And a drive to 24/96 and beyond is not just off the roadmap here; it's on another map altogether.

Simple, if a little direct, answer. Get used to it, or get something else!
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Direct yes, but is your answer bollocks? possibly, patronising? definitely!

I'm not sure I see the relevance of the DSP being 16-bit. That doesn't necessarily limit the number of bits that can be in the sample. Remember, the DSP is really just a high-speed CPU optimised for specific instructions. It happens to be a 16-bit CPU.

You might be imagining there is a parallel data bus of 16-bits between the DSP and the DAC where audio-samples are clocked in, and the bit-depth is limited because of this. This is incorrect.

The data bus between the DAC and the DSP is actually normally an I2C serial bus which can accept a range of different formats. In particular the Sonos DAC can accept 24-bit audio samples. It's notable that the DAC has three separate serial inputs providing up to 6 channels of audio. Obviously current implementations don't use these.

Whilst we're talking about the DAC, it's worth noting it's a serious bit of kit with something like 6db better THD than the ancient TI DAC used in the Squeezeboxes.

So, focusing back on the DSP, all it has to do to support 24-bit is be able to format a serial data-stream in the appropriate format for the DAC to understand it. Given the performance of the DSP I would say this is totally possible.
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This scheme seems to be based on the assumption that the limitation here is the Sonos DAC. It isn't. The DAC chip in the ZP90/CONNECT is 24-bit capable.
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Chris, why not just covert your hires library to 16/44.1? With DBPoweramp, for example, you can even do it as a batch all-in-one-go job.
 
Yesteday I ran I out of space on my music thing
I gave Apple a call...
...and They moved the "make more room for music" slider thing for me
Today I did not run out of space.
Music sounds... crunchier... than I recall
But it's only a collection of Justin Beiber music
after all

This has no rocks mentioned anywhere in the poem, so its going to to be thrown away.
(I'm only interested in rocks, and possibly stones and pebbles)

ube7esaz.jpg
 
Chris,

I had run-ins/talks/exchanges with Slim Devices/Logitech to make what would be straightforward changes to better support hi-res files: 24/96 and 24/192 and when I questioned them about changes and modifications to their embedded OS and software they were both reticent and reluctant. Towards the end Logitech representatives told me that they did not see the market as "big" enough to warrant changes and modifications. I took that as a cue that the product line would not be around much longer and eventually they EOL'd the Squeezebox family.

With respect to Sonos, I posit that it might be the same regarding Hi-Res playback. The saving grace for Sonos users just might be the recent interest and Kickstarter success of Neil Young's PONO. As stated earlier in this thread, one also has to factor in just how much time and energy it would take on the part of SONOS to modify/adapt/change their devices.

On a personal note, I got so frustrated with Logitech Squeezebox that before I left for the UK last year, I gave all that gear to a close friend of mine back in the States. It was not the hardware itself, but the attitude and intransigence of the Logitech personnel which put me over the edge.

Size does matter. Do people want a better hi-res Squeezebox? an improved hi-res Sonos product? Yes to both. That being said, those numbers as they stand do not constitute viable/sizeable market demand.

Patience can be a virtue, or so I am told. Not in my book, but hey you're mileage may differ. :)
 
thebiglebowski said:
Sonos announced that hi-res support is not on their roadmap.

We know their hardware will support it but why do they insist on restricting us to 16/44. I've got some music in 24/92 that I have to play using a standalone laptop would be so much better if I could play everything via the Sonos.

Would buy a Simple Audio device if the app wasn't awful and they had Qobuz.
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Their hardware won't support it at present. They use a 24 bit chip but 8 bits of that are used for control, leaving 16 for audio. One of the directors announced the other day that 24 bit isn't on their roadmap. It wouldn't be the first time they deny something they later do - every launch is preceded by getting anyone who is party to any advanced information signing an NDA - but I believe him on this. They're after the mass market and don't see the audiophile market as being important.
 
thebiglebowski said:
Direct yes, but is your answer bollocks? possibly, patronising? definitely!
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Not patronising, just stating the market and the direction Sonos seems to be taking.

If the architecture is capable of 24-bit, then the balance shifts from being 'can't' to 'won't'. Which amounts to the same thing to the end user, but is a very different thing intellectually.

It's a shame, but probably accurately reflects both Sonos' take on the size of its audiophile base, and the general lack of interest in 24-bit audio in the wider community.
 
One of the things I love about my squeezeboxes is that they will play absolutely anything. I never have to faff about changing file formats or downsampling stuff - it will just play them all.

That hi-def is probably pointless from an sq point of view is irrelevant.

I could go on about how I have some hi-def music because it's better mastered than the redbook equivalant, but that's not really the point. If I want hi-def, that's up to me. I won't be dictated to by Sonos, so I will continue not buying their products.

Even on their own terms, ie what do most of their customers want, their decision makes no sense. Hi-def support wouldn't harm customers who aren't interested in hi-def, and since bodges already exist to persuade Sonos to play hi-def, it's not like development costs would be significant.
 
Same with me and the Pi/HiFiBerryDac/Volumio, modern hardware is largely an irrelevance these days and sonos is an ancient hardware platform but with an ongoing app-infrastructure apps are the area of development that make a real difference to the user experience, if I wanted it all under one roof and aggregate all the services I would still choose Sonos but I can just about navigate my web browser to go to volumio.local for local music and Qubuz and Spotify on my iPad.

lock in hardware is what will hold you back... Apps are the development area now
 
They would need completely different architecture looking ahead because of the way their control works with the mesh. Spanningtree protocol, apparently, not that I know how the hell that works. I don't know what the cost implications of them changing to 32 bit chips are, or the implications surounding back-compatibility with the millions of existing units out there.
 
I suspect Sonos are reading this and shuddering at the thought they have pissed off about < 0.1% of their user base.

Guys, it's called economics and I'm sure Sonos will be around alot longer than the usual highly priced, low volume, audiophile gear manufacturers.

My Sonos gear is my next favourite gadget after my smartphone.
 
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