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Classical Concert chat...

Rusalka, The Philharmonia in the pit conducted by Douglas Boyd who was one of the founding members of theChamber Orchestra of Europe so learned much of his conducting informally from Abbado.

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..upstairs, downstairs.


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Just returned from Usher Hall, what should have been a superb performance of Mahler's 3rd symphony by the RSNO and Thomas Sondergaard.

But like many of the audience, and the performers at times too, I found a lot of distraction from the audience was getting in the way of the music. The hall was almost full, very warm and the general level of shuffling, coughing and fidgeting was dreadful.

But the main source was one person who vocalised loudly during the performance. This poor person had serious disabilities, and we could also see that their carer was trying to calm them. I realise it may well be the case that they are the world's biggest Mahler fan and are far more deserving of having enjoyed that concert than anyone else there, myself included.

I don't really know what to say or how to react, I feel ashamed of myself for being annoyed by it - of course everyone should have access to performances of this music! .... But is this right or fair for everyone else? I honestly felt that the performance was imperiled as the orchestra was distracted at times and the early part of the concert was tenuous as a bit of a feedback loop developed between the distracted audience and performers. However, they did manage to get to the magnificent beautiful finale and the last few minutes cast its sublime spell as I was hoping for. Well done to the RSNO and Sondergaard.

I think there needs to be a bit of a think and open debate about how classical music performance, which needs quietness and concentration much of the time, is made accessible to everyone while avoiding these kinds of problems.
 
alanbeeb said:
Just returned from Usher Hall, what should have been a superb performance of Mahler's 3rd symphony by the RSNO and Thomas Sondergaard.

But like many of the audience, and the performers at times too, I found a lot of distraction from the audience was getting in the way of the music. The hall was almost full, very warm and the general level of shuffling, coughing and fidgeting was dreadful.

But the main source was one person who vocalised loudly during the performance. This poor person had serious disabilities, and we could also see that their carer was trying to calm them. I realise it may well be the case that they are the world's biggest Mahler fan and are far more deserving of having enjoyed that concert than anyone else there, myself included.

I don't really know what to say or how to react, I feel ashamed of myself for being annoyed by it - of course everyone should have access to performances of this music! .... But is this right or fair for everyone else? I honestly felt that the performance was imperiled as the orchestra was distracted at times and the early part of the concert was tenuous as a bit of a feedback loop developed between the distracted audience and performers. However, they did manage to get to the magnificent beautiful finale and the last few minutes cast its sublime spell as I was hoping for. Well done to the RSNO and Sondergaard.

I think there needs to be a bit of a think and open debate about how classical music performance, which needs quietness and concentration much of the time, is made accessible to everyone while avoiding these kinds of problems.
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Brilliant performance but agree, this is the noisiest concert I’ve been to in years. As a background, the usual offenders seem to have the knack of waiting to cough or grunt just at the worst possible moment. I’ve never been in the position of attending a concert before where a member of the audience couldn’t control themselves like this. It had the effect of making me wait tensely for when the next interruption would come and like you, preoccupation with concern for the performers.

I think you can’t have a situation where someone can undermine the performance for every other person in the hall including the artists. Someone else brought a crying baby to the Les Siecles rehearsal last week. A few years ago about 12 children were booked, without parents, into seats at the front of the Usher Hall for an orchestral concert, the oldest was about 18 and there were a couple of five year olds who got bored very rapidly and did what bored five year olds do, the distraction amplified by people around them telling them to be quiet.
 
That's bad luck about the concert. Frequent loud coughing can be quite distracting (pre-covid coughing I mean), but this sounds like something else entirely. Is there a chance you could have asked for a partial refund or something like that? Sure, the performance went ahead but it clearly wasn't business as usual.

I guess the venue operators are in a tricky position. Everyone has the same right of access to performances but there's usually an expectation in the small print about audience behaviour, and that disruption may lead to one being asked to leave. People with disabilities are a protected group, for good reason, but what you guys are describing sounds like it could be a catalyst for a review of those Ts and Cs when buying a classical concert ticket - no one would have heard a thing at a death metal concert so there are obviously many concerts where being loud doesn't matter.

I went to see Scrooge last December but it was advertised as being an informal show, an informal show that would be fully inclusive to young kids, people with disabilities who tended to be quite vocal etc. Indeed, the whole cast addressed the audience at the beginning as themselves and explained to the audience that that's how the show would be i.e. we'll get on with the show and the audience can just relax and don't worry if some parts of the audience get a bit noisy or whatever. I can't remember exactly how it was put but basically, everyone knew that noise and disruption would not be an issue.

Of course, one view would be to say that orchestras and audiences should just get used to it as the disruption has nothing to do with wilfull bad behaviour. But considering the cost of a ticket and the piece of work being performed, I would have found it difficult to be so accepting on the night myself, what with Mahler's third being my favourite symphony.
 
TheDecameron said:
It had the effect of making me wait tensely for when the next interruption would come and like you, preoccupation with concern for the performers.
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Yes, exactly how I felt.

windhoek said:
That's bad luck about the concert. Frequent loud coughing can be quite distracting (pre-covid coughing I mean), but this sounds like something else entirely. Is there a chance you could have asked for a partial refund or something like that? Sure, the performance went ahead but it clearly wasn't business as usual.
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We paid £104 for 2 seats last night. But I wouldn't ask for refund - the music worked its magic at the end - and its done now, its happpened. But.... this might put me off going back to any classical event at the Usher hall that is likely to be busy.

TheDecameron said:
I think you can’t have a situation where someone can undermine the performance for every other person in the hall including the artists.
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I am conflicted - like I said, this poor person may be the world's biggest Mahler fan - and for all I know maybe that concert last night was a magnificent experience for them - and what sort of person would I be to deny that to them? its difficult
but I also totally agree with this and maybe that the basic principle.

As for people bringing babies and infants: hire a babysitter or wait a few years until the kids are older! That's what we did.
 
Just watched Blomstedt conduct Beethoven 7 live with the BPO on Digital Concert Hall tonight. He’s 95! I saw him perform it with the Gewandhaus when he was 91 and he did the same thing tonight and drove the final movement like a madman. He explained in interview that some of the devices Beethoven used might be considered imbecilic and that Beethoven intentionally whipped his audience up. Weber heard it and thought it appalling- he said Beethoven was ripe for the madhouse. The audience in Berlin were on their feet roaring at the end. It was quite incredible.
 
TheDecameron said:
Just watched Blomstedt conduct Beethoven 7 live with the BPO on Digital Concert Hall tonight. He’s 95! I saw him perform it with the Gewandhaus when he was 91 and he did the same thing tonight and drove the final movement like a madman. He explained in interview that some of the devices Beethoven used might be considered imbecilic and that Beethoven intentionally whipped his audience up. Weber heard it and thought it appalling- he said Beethoven was ripe for the madhouse. The audience in Berlin were on their feet roaring at the end. It was quite incredible.
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How strange. I've just watched it, too. I've just bought a new Android telly (Sharp 32BI3KA, £120 from Richer Sounds), and activated the week's Berliner trial on the installed app. I was absolutely gripped by Beethoven 7. Wonderful performance. I must say, I felt that the BPO was just a formidable machine, powering on regardless. I'm sure Blomstedt had had his input during rehearsal, but the performance just seemed to take on a life of its own. Inspiring.

I tried BPO Concert Hall a few years ago, but the then crappy broadband didn't cut it. We've gone over to fibre to the property and get good speeds. Tonight, it was without stuttering, drop outs or buffering. I get my state pension next month, I think I might subscribe. :)
 
TheDecameron said:
Just watched Blomstedt conduct Beethoven 7 live with the BPO on Digital Concert Hall tonight. He’s 95! I saw him perform it with the Gewandhaus when he was 91 and he did the same thing tonight and drove the final movement like a madman. He explained in interview that some of the devices Beethoven used might be considered imbecilic and that Beethoven intentionally whipped his audience up. Weber heard it and thought it appalling- he said Beethoven was ripe for the madhouse. The audience in Berlin were on their feet roaring at the end. It was quite incredible.
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Blomstedt is the only conductor to rival early (1951) Karajan and Carlos Kleiber for the Beethoven 7th, in my opinion, no one else that I have heard comes close.
 
Back to the Usher Hall this afternoon for The Belgian National Orchestra conducted by Roberto González-Monjas. Good attendance, the place was quite full - though not sure if upper circle was being used - couldn't see from where we were in mid-central stalls.
https://www.usherhall.co.uk/whats-on/sunday-classics-2022-23-belgian-national-orchestra

First Item was Respighi's Prelude, Chorale and Fugue for Orchestra - an early work, 17 minute mini-symphony, ticked all the late romantic post-Wagner boxes. I'd never heard it before but it was quite enjoyable.

Then Paul Lewis gave us Mozart's 25th Piano Concerto - no quibbles with the graceful performance.... but the problems began for me as the coffin-dodger sitting beside me had a 25 minute long bronchial episode, coughed, grunted, wheezed and shuffled non-stop. Very loudly.
Honestly why the **** go to a concert in that state of health? Some people. at the interval I was thinking this might be the last live concert I ever go to, it was that bad.

But Mrs beeb and our neighbour (who'd managed to get tickets for £5 each!) persuaded me to carry on for the 2nd half -Saint-Saens Organ Symphony. Thank goodness - it was magnificent! its not the greatest symphony ever but its an ABSOLUTELY GLORIOUS NOISE!!! and the Usher Hall Organ did its thing splendidly.

...and it was loud enough to drown out Mr Tuberculosis sitting next to me - maybe he'd taken his inhaler or some cough mixture at the interval but he seemed to cope better in the 2nd half. Though his partner started humming some of the Saint-Saens tunes o_O
 
This programme is on at Symphony Hall tomorrow, and I would very much like to hear Paul Lewis's Mozart, him being a Brendel pupil... but will be at the Hippodrome for The Makropoulos Affair.

The Belgian National Orchestra is pretty good, if their Asrael Symphony is anything to go by - my favourite version. But we had the Organ Symphony a year ago... I'm curious: how long a period do you all expect to allow between live hearings of main works? I certainly want more than a year to pass. B:Music, which manages Symphony Hall, just doesn't seem to understand this - we had a repeat New World recently and are being offered the second Symphonie Fantastique inside a year in February. It baffles me. And there are still great symphonies (like Asrael) that I have never managed to hear live!
 
I don't think we have so many concerts here that we get close duplicates..... though possibly we've had several LvB symphonies in last couple of years, probs due to the 250th anniversary.

With the Edinburgh Festival we do tend to get possibly too much Bruckner and Mahler (is that possible?).... I've seen 4 Bruckner 9s and 4 Bruckner 5s in last 20 years or so. I'd like more Brahms, Vaughan Williams and more contemporary music to be programmed in the festival.
 
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I had a ticket for The Borodin Quartet at St Georges Hall in Liverpool tonight. Yesterday I had a phone call from the box office saying it was cancelled. "visa difficulties" according to someone on Twitter. :-(
 
On Sunday Dec 4th there is a concert at the Carnegie Hall in New York

“Carol of the Bells” returns to Carnegie Hall 100 years after its North American premiere, when New York audiences first experienced Ukraine’s unique choral tradition. Hear the song alongside other beloved Ukrainian carols and contemporary choral works in a concert that features conductor Daniela Candillari, soprano Janai Brugger, Ukrainian-Canadian singer Marichka Marczyk, Ukraine Children’s Choir Shchedryk, The Choir of Trinity Wall Street, Ukrainian Chorus Dumka of New York, and Ukrainian Bandurist Chorus of North America.

My daughter in law is the artistic director and has spent two years organising this, somewhat heightened by recent events!

It is at 2 pm New York time, 7 pm U.K. time and there is a link here to watch the concert live.

https://vimeo.com/event/2656132
 
alanbeeb said:
Back to the Usher Hall this afternoon for The Belgian National Orchestra conducted by Roberto González-Monjas. Good attendance, the place was quite full - though not sure if upper circle was being used - couldn't see from where we were in mid-central stalls.
https://www.usherhall.co.uk/whats-on/sunday-classics-2022-23-belgian-national-orchestra

First Item was Respighi's Prelude, Chorale and Fugue for Orchestra - an early work, 17 minute mini-symphony, ticked all the late romantic post-Wagner boxes. I'd never heard it before but it was quite enjoyable.

Then Paul Lewis gave us Mozart's 25th Piano Concerto - no quibbles with the graceful performance.... but the problems began for me as the coffin-dodger sitting beside me had a 25 minute long bronchial episode, coughed, grunted, wheezed and shuffled non-stop. Very loudly.
Honestly why the **** go to a concert in that state of health? Some people. at the interval I was thinking this might be the last live concert I ever go to, it was that bad.

But Mrs beeb and our neighbour (who'd managed to get tickets for £5 each!) persuaded me to carry on for the 2nd half -Saint-Saens Organ Symphony. Thank goodness - it was magnificent! its not the greatest symphony ever but its an ABSOLUTELY GLORIOUS NOISE!!! and the Usher Hall Organ did its thing splendidly.

...and it was loud enough to drown out Mr Tuberculosis sitting next to me - maybe he'd taken his inhaler or some cough mixture at the interval but he seemed to cope better in the 2nd half. Though his partner started humming some of the Saint-Saens tunes o_O
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Could be the earliest report of the Usher Hall being used as a warm bank. Pensioners get a chance to turn the heating off and spend half a day on the buses and clearing their pipes during the organ concerto. If the venue starts offering free cups of tea to them we’re finished.
 
Watched the Jan 7th Berlin Philharmonic concert last night Digital Concert Hall: Daniel Barenboim and Martha Argerich, the Robert Schumann concerto, a touching piano piece by Bizet for four hands, Barenboim and Argerich sat together, (Jeux d'enfants Op.22) and a triumphant Brahms Symphony No.2

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What an incredibly moving event. I’m sure many wondered if Barenboim would make it. He had to conduct seated and was economical with his movements but the Brahms was absolutely blistering in the final movement. The applause went on for 15 minutes at the end, the whole hall on its feet. They didn’t seem to want to let him go and he didn’t want to leave.

https://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/concert/54498?dch_ref=share
 
On the coach heading home from Symphony Hall. The CBSO played out of their skins tonight under Fabien Gabel - it just got better and better :)

Rousing finish with La Valse (Ravel) was the kind of experience that - for a while, at least - makes hi-fi seem redundant...

Even the traffic jam on the M6 can't take the shine off the evening!
 
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