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class d.

Purite Audio said:
Class-D is extremely economical in terms of electricity usage.
Keith
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(Keith, again you are avoiding to answer my question directly)

But now I see what you've meant. So one will be a able to recoup the cost of a Mola-Mola amp by electricity savings in how many hundreds of years?
 
Disbeliever said:
If Class D is so good as some post, why is it that most of the major amplifier manufacturers
do not sell them ?
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Quite simple... Yes, anyone can take OEM Class D modules, do nothing significant in the implementation, and produce a Class D amplifier - BUT... with no value-add, these are all likely to all sound the same and will be subject to market-driven price points.

To do something significant to enhance the performance of any OEM sub-component requires R&D and its linked investment PLUS some understanding of how digital PWM amplification works, where its challenges lie, what its strengths are, etc. in order to raise the bar.

Most amplifier manufacturers rely on their own designs to differentiate their products from the other on the market and adopting third-party technology is directly contra to their basic product/market strategy (and also cedes some control over product design).

This further compounded when their own skills lie in analogue technology and the third-party components are based on digital technology - where they have limited expertise (without more investment in upskilling/reskilling).

Also, the question posed is more of a "troll question" than a serious question - and could be rewritten to read "if hybrid-powered vehicles as good as so many would have us believe, why don't all manufacturers make and sell hybrid vehicles?" In this example, the number of manufacturers releasing hybrid-powered vehicles is growing, albeit slowly. Similarly, if you look at audio in the same context, the number of manufacturers actually manufacturing and selling Class D-based amplifiers/receivers IS ALSO GROWING (albeit also somewhat slowly).

Be careful when making a point that is largely based on looking at British audio manufacturers and ignoring manufacturers from other countries.

In the budget to mainstream section of the market, you will find Class D products from a number of Japanese manufacturers (Denon, Onkyo, Panasonic, Sony, Yamaha, to name but a few). Also, some of your "Brit-Designed/Orient-Built" brigade have also launched Class D designs (Cambridge, NAD, Rotel).

In the North American high-end space, Jeff Rowland was one of the early adopters and has been followed by a number of other North American high-end manufacturers (NuForce/NuPrime, Bel Canto, Classe', Mark Levinson, PS Audio, Wyred4Sound, etc).

In Europe you've got Devialet, Marantz, Primare, etc.

In the UK high-end space the most influential amplifier manufacturer (Chord IMHO) is also involved with Class D.

So, who else would you like?

Arcam? Creek? Musical Fidelity? Croft? Naim? Linn?

Watch this space....

Dave
 
I wonder why some will say class d is noticeably uncoloured. To me, they all have issues/ problem in HF, lack of meat in the bass and overall cold character. I much prefer tubes or class a SS.
 
2x NC400 with own power supplies have an idle draw of 30w combined from power socket. At normal listening levels, you'll be lucky to see that rise 5 watts.
 
the loaf said:
Hello,
Just wondering if anyone has had some positive results with class d amps. I have a pr of naim dbls and am tempted by class d integrateds (used ARC/rowland) or maybe power amps. Currently have valves but want to move to more convenient amps providing they do not sound really awful.
Many Thanks.
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I think you will be disappointed going from valves to High-powered class D amps. You would be much better off looking at Class D chip-amps. These generally have a more valve-like sparkle.
 
murphythecat said:
I wonder why some will say class d is noticeably uncoloured. To me, they all have issues/ problem in HF, lack of meat in the bass and overall cold character. I much prefer tubes or class a SS.
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Audio is a subjective hobby/passion and each of us will have preferences that differ - this is normal human behaviour and is perfectly acceptable (as long as it remains a preference and does not become a soap box in Hyde Park :) ).

BTW, having some issues in HF does not necessarily imply a coloured performance - just that the HF can be problematic when matching Class D amps with other components that have similar challenges in the HF area.

There are numerous combinations of amp and speakers that just don't work as a combination - but, in different setups, each can and does sound great.

Where Class D scores is in its high efficiency and low heat dissipation which, when coupled with (in the right component mix) excellent sonic performance, makes it ideal in our shrinking audio real estate circumstances.

There are arguments for both positions - as there should be given the subjectivity at work.

Dave
 
toozeup said:
I think you will be disappointed going from valves to High-powered class D amps.
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True in certain amp/speaker combinations.

I had a pair of Tannoy D700s for 21 years and had paired them with valve amps, hybrid amps, Class A SS and Class AB SS amps and finally with Class D. The Class Ds became keepers while the rest vanished into obscurity.

Tannoy's Prestige range provides the exact opposite - delivering sublime performances with low-power valve amplification and where their high sensitivity renders high-powered amps a bit redundant.

toozeup said:
You would be much better off looking at Class D chip-amps. These generally have a more valve-like sparkle.
Click to expand...

True in certain sets of requirements where a Class D chip-amps will suffice.

Limitations in maximum output power at acceptable distortion levels makes chip-amps more of niche application devices than as replacements for main rig audio amplification (as does a general limitation in input options, etc).

I recently bought two Topping VX2 chip-amps and have paired them with AE Compact 1 bookshelf speakers for use in a PC audio application. I've been very impressed with their sound quality - if not that surprised that Class D can deliver - after 12 years using 250w Class D monoblocks.

Dave
 
murphythecat said:
I wonder why some will say class d is noticeably uncoloured. To me, they all have issues/ problem in HF, lack of meat in the bass and overall cold character. I much prefer tubes or class a SS.
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2 sides to this: Either they're that transparent that the source's real truth is coming out, or more likely its an older generation design which didn't response too well to speakers with not-so-friendly demands.
 
muzzer said:
So you like the colour that valves add.
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I dont use tubes, but tubes do not colour more the sound the mosfets or chips or class d.

do you like switching noise in HF with class d? class d hf performance have always been a problem for me.

tube amp when properly designed do not creates distortion. unless you think you can hear 0.1% of distortion.

dtd said:
2 sides to this: Either they're that transparent that the source's real truth is coming out, or more likely its an older generation design which didn't response too well to speakers with not-so-friendly demands.
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Ive tried tpa3116, ta2020, ta 2021. I find they all have serious coloration in HF, a crystal clear presentation that seem to accentuate white vs black colour, gives the sound seemingly unnatural, punchy bass but lacking body. They are good for what they cost, but to me, class a/ab sounds better.
 
It is possible to make an extremely low distortion valve amp, but then it would 'sound' like a solid state amp, IME most valve users enjoy the added 'colour' that most valve amps bring.
The two makes of class D which we didn't pursue both had rather steely treble.
Keith.
 
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