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Choosing direction for second system (all in one vs separates)

lsegeorge

lsegeorge

pfm Member
I know I have beaten the subject of my second/bedroom system to the ground (other posts here) but my thinking has changed yet again.
Current system - Marantz NR1200, Harbeth P3ESR XD, Subwoofer borrowed from my AV system Monitor Audio RXW12, Turntable Pro Ject Debut Carbon AT VM540ML

I am considering an upgrade to larger speakers, but before I proceed I am now first considering an upgrade to my amplification first.
From the upgrade I am looking for warmer/sweeter sound, better dynamics and a more engaging presentation.

I could take 2 possible directions
- Upgrade to a more competent all in one (Cambridge EVO150, Marantz Model 40n)
- Upgrade to an integrated amp and work with separates (Used Primare A30.1 MKII, New Musical Fidelity M6si or M5si)

The all in ones are keeping things simple both in terms of usability and box count and cable clutter but I am not sure to what extent they would be a worthwhile upgrade to a more "analogue" and dynamic sound.
Cost of the all in ones and of the M6Si are similar around 2k whilst the used Primare is available locally for 500 euro.

Any thoughts on the direction or experience with specific equipment will be much appreciated !
 
Harbeth P3s of all flavours work brilliantly with the best of the old Exposure regulated integrated amps (Super XV or Super XX), which are a very punchy 55/60 wpc, more than capable of driving the Harbeths to high SPLs and frequently pop up for far less than £500. I would be very surprised if any of the options you propose above sounded as good or noticeably better.

Valves or Class A may give you more refinement, but neither will be quite as powerful, unless you spend stupid money.

I could quite happily live with a digital only system with a Topping E30 DAC, an Exposure XX and Harbeth P3s in perpetuity in a small to medum sized room. Fabulous combination.

Have you considered a DAC with a remote volume control (like the Topping E30) and a power amplifier? I used a Quad QSP for ages with an E30 and some Kef 103.2's and it sounded fabulous. Latterly I do the same with some Meridian Active monitors for a really minimalist system.
 
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My second system is a pair of KEF LS50 Wireless II - built-in streaming and quite a good app. Not the last word in terms of sound quality but impressive for the price (I bought mine on sale). I also have them hooked up to the TV.
 
Thanks all for the feedback!!

I am effectively running an all in one currently (Marantz NR1200) and I totally enjoy the simplicity that comes with it. and yes I do drive a second zone (in ceiling speaker in the bathroom) and I do have the TV connected as well. Most of the music I play is streaming controlled through the Heos app.

So upgrading to one of the all in ones (Marantz 40n or Evo 150) is the obvious choice. Having said that I am not sure whether the incremental improvement in the sound quality will be worthwhile. Also with the Marantz I will need an additional amp (maybe a small class D from aliexpress) to drive the in ceiling.

The other option is maybe to get an integrated with a streamer (say MF M6si with bluenode). If I use the 12v trigger I should be able to control everything through the bluenode app. Will also need a little class D amp for the in sealing.
 
Sounds like what you currently have does everything you want. Changing seems like it would be a downgrade convenience-wise.
 
John said:
Sounds like what you currently have does everything you want. Changing seems like it would be a downgrade convenience-wise.
Click to expand...

Indeed I do have everything need in terms of connectivity and functionality!

What I am trying to figure out is how to improve sound with minimal compromise in functionality!

It should be an acceptable compromise if I go with one of the all in ones but I guess no one will be able to tell me beforehand the increment of the sonic improvement from what I currently have! and it is not a cheap upgrade either!

On the other hand the integrated amp direction is closer to my heart and its more likely to result in the sonic upgrade I am looking for...but I worry that I will end up using the system less....but again isn't sound quality always a priority!
 
I think you are in danger of putting the cart before the horse. Speaker choice will determine amplification. I’d replace the bookshelf speakers and sub for a full range speaker - should require less space if speakers are on stands. Then shop for an amp which suits the speakers.
 
dan m said:
I think you are in danger of putting the cart before the horse. Speaker choice will determine amplification. I’d replace the bookshelf speakers and sub for a full range speaker - should require less space if speakers are on stands. Then shop for an amp which suits the speakers.
Click to expand...
I understand your point as I am also considering whether the P3s will even give me the bigger sound that I am looking for.
Being the well respected speakers they are, upgrading before trying better amplification will always make me wonder of what it could have been!
At the same time I run the risk of making moves in the wrong direction,

foxwelljsly said:
Harbeth P3s of all flavours work brilliantly with the best of the old Exposure regulated integrated amps (Super XV or Super XX), which are a very punchy 55/60 wpc, more than capable of driving the Harbeths to high SPLs and frequently pop up for far less than £500. I would be very surprised if any of the options you propose above sounded as good or noticeably better.

Valves or Class A may give you more refinement, but neither will be quite as powerful, unless you spend stupid money.

I could quite happily live with a digital only system with a Topping E30 DAC, an Exposure XX and Harbeth P3s in perpetuity in a small to medum sized room. Fabulous combination.

Have you considered a DAC with a remote volume control (like the Topping E30) and a power amplifier? I used a Quad QSP for ages with a little Topping E30 and some Kef 103.2's and it sounded fabulous. Latterly I do te same with some Meridian Active monitors for a really minimalist system.
Click to expand...

and I guess the above become super useful if I am sticking to the P3s but may make less sense if I am to upgrade the speakers as well. Btw I do have an E30 DAC so what I am really missing is a decent power amp in order to give this a try !
 
lsegeorge said:
the above become super useful if I am sticking to the P3s but may make less sense if I am to upgrade the speakers as well. Btw I do have an E30 DAC so what I am really missing is a decent power amp in order to give this a try !
Click to expand...
There you go, a Quad 306 would be ideal. Easy to find, cheap to buy and tiny.
 
dan m said:
I think you are in danger of putting the cart before the horse. Speaker choice will determine amplification. I’d replace the bookshelf speakers and sub for a full range speaker - should require less space if speakers are on stands. Then shop for an amp which suits the speakers.
Click to expand...
This. You don't say how big your room is or how much latitude you have around speaker positioning.

I would also start by finding speakers that sound how you want them to in your room with your existing amplification and then optimise power amplification to go with the speaker's characteristics (low impedance, high SPLs etc).

That said, Harbeth P3s are amazing small speakers and can rock the place quite nicely if you're sitting less than 3m from them in a smallish room.
 
foxwelljsly said:
There you go, a Quad 306 would be ideal. Easy to find, cheap to buy and tiny.
Click to expand...
I have a stock Quad 303 seating around, but having it refurbished/recapped here in Cyprus has proven a bit of an issue.
As it stands my 303, running out of the Marantz NR1200 pre outs was not great
 
foxwelljsly said:
This. You don't say how big your room is or how much latitude you have around speaker positioning.

I would also start by finding speakers that sound how you want them to in your room with your existing amplification and then optimise power amplification to go with the speaker's characteristics (low impedance, high SPLs etc).

That said, Harbeth P3s are amazing small speakers and can rock the place quite nicely if you're sitting less than 3m from them in a smallish room.
Click to expand...

:) I first started a thread on replacing the speakers but gave me the feeling that I has not given my P3s enough of a chance!

My room is 4.5m x 5.5m x 3m and my listening position in at the back end (4.5m).
I am trying to stick to a BBC school type speaker. My main system is ARC amplification driving Tannoy Legacy Arden and I am really enjoying the sonic sigature.

Some speakers that came up in the previous/speaker thread were the Grahams LS6 (f and non f) and LS5/9 and the Tannoy Eatons !
 
lsegeorge said:
I have a stock Quad 303 seating around, but having it refurbished/recapped here in Cyprus has proven a bit of an issue.
As it stands my 303, running out of the Marantz NR1200 pre outs was not great
Click to expand...
Try it with the E30 in pre mode and see how it sounds.
 
foxwelljsly said:
Try it with the E30 in pre mode and see how it sounds.
Click to expand...
Thats an interesting project ! I have an Auralic Aries G1 streamer so I could give this combination a go !
Would you run the subwoofer out of one of the preouts (split the RCA out of the Topping)
 
lsegeorge said:
Indeed I do have everything need in terms of connectivity and functionality!

What I am trying to figure out is how to improve sound with minimal compromise in functionality!

It should be an acceptable compromise if I go with one of the all in ones but I guess no one will be able to tell me beforehand the increment of the sonic improvement from what I currently have! and it is not a cheap upgrade either!

On the other hand the integrated amp direction is closer to my heart and its more likely to result in the sonic upgrade I am looking for...but I worry that I will end up using the system less....but again isn't sound quality always a priority!
Click to expand...
I would not compromise functionality for questionable sound quality. I would certainly use my system less if I were to compromise functionality. Sounds like you don’t use your turntable much in that second system. If you were to, I would try to link your main turntable to the second system as that would be a certain upgrade in sound quality.
 
WiiM Pro with a Hegel H190?

My rationale being you're willing to spend £2.4k* on an integrated and then a further £450 on a Streamer with built in DAC.

The WiiM Pro is £150 and the Hegel is £2.4k and has a built in DAC, plus it has a network input and is Roon ready. So any other digital sources would go directly in to the integrated rather than through any streamer. You'd be using the WiiM as a Streaming transport only so it's DAC quality is irrelevant.

I've not heard a H190, but apparently the owner/designer of Harbeth just happens to think Hegels are a good match for his speakers. For what that's worth (not much to me but it may mean something to you).

*No idea where you're seeing an M6Si for £2k

Edited to add: just realised the above set up doesn't give you an input for your TT, so probably isn't viable, unless you can find a phono stage for £300, but then that's another box.
 
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