I wasn't meaning you specifically.
I'm going to ring Harbeth to find out what it is exactly they want, and will post the response.
I'm neither an objectivist not a subjectivist by the way. Labelling yourself is a sign of insecurity in my book
Challenge From Harbeth - Free M40.1 For Those Who Can Identify Amplifier Differences
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I'm going to ring Harbeth to find out what it is exactly they want, and will post the response.
I'm neither an objectivist not a subjectivist by the way. Labelling yourself is a sign of insecurity in my book
Minstrel SE
These go to eleven
Well it has me looking at the Harbeth speaker range which seems very good. I like the links to the BBC monitor and the P3esr (the one I can afford)
Publicity job well done by Mr Shaw I would say.
Publicity job well done by Mr Shaw I would say.
darrylfunk
Banned
so you are just here for the conversation then.....
wouldn't it be easy to have say naim's lowliest int. amp versus a top line naim multi power supplied pre power as they must sound easily identifiable blind plus loads of people here have them....someone can win a top end speaker just by proving they can hear the 'massive differences' they normally claim.....why is no one going for it...forget the 'switch' is not transparent guff.....
dave
Plywood King
so you are just here for the conversation then.....
wouldn't it be easy to have say naim's lowliest int. amp versus a top line naim multi power supplied pre power as they must sound easily identifiable blind plus loads of people here have them....someone can win a top end speaker just by proving they can hear the 'massive differences' they normally claim.....why is no one going for it...forget the 'switch' is not transparent guff.....
Yes, I'm here for conversation.
RE: Naim Nait vs 552/500 and "why is no one going for it"
You'd have to ask Naim or someone other than me as I don't own a 552/500 or would want to give away a pair of speakers I owned of any sort for any reason. (I have no need to prove anything to anyone other than myself.)
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
You can get that demonstration at any Naim dealer. In fact, you can get a demonstration of different amplifiers at any decent dealer.
The whole premise of sale by demonstration is that it is the difference that you can hear that persuades you it is worth spending the money. If you can't hear a difference, or don't think the difference is sufficient, don't spend the money!
The whole premise of sale by demonstration is that it is the difference that you can hear that persuades you it is worth spending the money. If you can't hear a difference, or don't think the difference is sufficient, don't spend the money!
Teddy Ray
pfm Member
Why doesn't anyone just take the test for chrissakes?
If the differences are obvious to the "golden eared" among us, I would think that they would be chomping at the bit. we have a couple here talking about it, but the most prolific "differences are obvious" types ...
nothing..(even though there is NOTHING to lose!!) just complaining about the test procedure, attacks on Mr. Shaw, etc.
It is terribly frustrating to see the same old same old. It is no wonder that audiophiles are the laughing stock of the audio community. they are like the neighborhood crazy person whom everyone avoids..
If the differences are obvious to the "golden eared" among us, I would think that they would be chomping at the bit. we have a couple here talking about it, but the most prolific "differences are obvious" types ...
nothing..(even though there is NOTHING to lose!!) just complaining about the test procedure, attacks on Mr. Shaw, etc.
It is terribly frustrating to see the same old same old. It is no wonder that audiophiles are the laughing stock of the audio community. they are like the neighborhood crazy person whom everyone avoids..
whatsnext
Naimless
Ouch. They provide entertainment and are are sensitive.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Audiophiles are the audio community. The problem is that in a society whose language is not rooted in the classics of either Greek or Latin audiophile sounds too much like paedophile so there is a general clamour not to be one of those and then make braying noises at those whom you think are more like that than yourself.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Oh dear.
I tried to engage seriously with you on your post but it was a waste of my time.
I've said I can't tell the difference between a Naim 42/110 and a Quad 34/405 at a sighted comparison....apparently I'm supposed to think they're different due to expectation bias but it doesn't seem to be the case. I haven't heard the difference brought about by adding a Naim Hicap to a 72 yet I'm supposed to be able to. Perhaps you can tell me why I need to do a blind test of these examples? Am I going to get different results in your opinion?
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Well there are a few experts posting here who have read a couple of books on electronics.
Exactly.Well it has me looking at the Harbeth speaker range which seems very good. I like the links to the BBC monitor and the P3esr (the one I can afford)
Publicity job well done by Mr Shaw I would say.
I agree. The stupid same old same old reference to "golden ears" and music lovers being a laughing stock.
The biggest laughs I've had so far in this thread came from Serge mentioning Behringer in the same sentence as Naim and the "audiophool" jargon on the Harbeth website.
Can you help out by telling me exactly how you measure musicality and listening pleasure? Take your time, I have all evening. If you're struggling I suggest you email Harbeth directly.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
No its not an opinion its fact
I will go as far as to say ANY solid state amp, even the ones in a '70's music centre, will beat a SET amp.THEY ARE NOT HIFI!
I'm sick of repeating this but hifi is NOT about whether or not you happen to LIKE the sound. It is about how closely it comes to reproducing the sound of real instruments and voices. If you don't like that then maybe when at the next live concert you attend you should tell the sax player that it sounds to harsh or the double bass player that it doesn't have enough slam and grip....
Paul R
pfm Member
The general reaction from the 'subjectivists' on this thread is pathetic.
It's obvious that you need to perform a sequence of experiments to find out whether it is possible to 'pass' this test and if so how to do it. I'm happy to knock up a switcher* for a first pass using the speakers/amps of your choice. Later perhaps Harbeth or one of their dealers would lend a pair of speakers for trials and the target amps could be checked for perfomance. Then, eventually, when you've figured out how to do it you go to the factory for the showdown.
Paul
*Surely if a switch kills the difference then it is too small to worry about. Using a switch means you can practice until the cows come home without having to move from your seat or risk damage from numerous plug/unplug cycles.
It's obvious that you need to perform a sequence of experiments to find out whether it is possible to 'pass' this test and if so how to do it. I'm happy to knock up a switcher* for a first pass using the speakers/amps of your choice. Later perhaps Harbeth or one of their dealers would lend a pair of speakers for trials and the target amps could be checked for perfomance. Then, eventually, when you've figured out how to do it you go to the factory for the showdown.
Paul
*Surely if a switch kills the difference then it is too small to worry about. Using a switch means you can practice until the cows come home without having to move from your seat or risk damage from numerous plug/unplug cycles.
Elephantears
Trunkated Aesthete
I'd love to get some advice from them on how to pitch this to Alan Shaw.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Ok, I did as you suggested.
Going along with this obvious publicity stunt I've just read the stuff below from the Harbeth website where I found some items that might be of interest to you Rob, given that like Serge, I expect you believe Mr Shaw has a lack of tolerance for the typical audiophool (as described by Serge and others, not Mr Shaw).
"We know exactly how to deliver musicality and a lifetime of listening pleasure"
Q. How do you measure "musicality" exactly?
Q. How do you measure "listening pleasure" exactly?
Rob, I'm expecting you'll confirm for everyone here that in fact you can't measure those things, they are both "audiophool" waffle but were taken directly from the Harbeth website.
What about this bit:
An entire generation of listeners have enjoyed around five million hours of listening to music on Harbeths - proof that the Harbeth formulae for natural sound at home is truly unbeatable.
An entire generation, then. Well that's quite a boast but what does it mean exactly and how did they come up with that?
Natural sound? Q. How do you measure that?
From reading the blurb it seems Harbeth have some mysterious thing called RADIAL going for them, maybe that's the key? Anyway, we'll never know 'cos they won't be telling.
What we do know is these speakers apparently sound the same with a cheap Behringer as they do with a decent amplifier, so don't buy the decent amplifier, buy the cheap Behringer instead and you'll have more money left over for a natural sounding pair of loudspeakers that are musical and will increase your listening pleasure.
I think it's about company profile and sales and that's all it is.
Total bollocks
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Well if you want to keep things British and vintage then I think a Sugden A21 should suit the bill admirably.
Or if you want the ultimate in amplification you try Arkless Electronics!
There again I am biased.... heavily into class A!
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Ok, I did as you suggested.
Going along with this obvious publicity stunt I've just read the stuff below from the Harbeth website where I found some items that might be of interest to you Rob, given that like Serge, I expect you believe Mr Shaw has a lack of tolerance for the typical audiophool (as described by Serge and others, not Mr Shaw).
"We know exactly how to deliver musicality and a lifetime of listening pleasure"
Q. How do you measure "musicality" exactly?
Q. How do you measure "listening pleasure" exactly?
Rob, I'm expecting you'll confirm for everyone here that in fact you can't measure those things, they are both "audiophool" waffle but were taken directly from the Harbeth website.
What about this bit:
An entire generation of listeners have enjoyed around five million hours of listening to music on Harbeths - proof that the Harbeth formulae for natural sound at home is truly unbeatable.
An entire generation, then. Well that's quite a boast but what does it mean exactly and how did they come up with that?
Natural sound? Q. How do you measure that?
From reading the blurb it seems Harbeth have some mysterious thing called RADIAL going for them, maybe that's the key? Anyway, we'll never know 'cos they won't be telling.
What we do know is these speakers apparently sound the same with a cheap Behringer as they do with a decent amplifier, so don't buy the decent amplifier, buy the cheap Behringer instead and you'll have more money left over for a natural sounding pair of loudspeakers that are musical and will increase your listening pleasure.
I think it's about company profile and sales and that's all it is.
I agree. Take it up with Harbeth, it's all from their website.
No its not an opinion its fact
THEY ARE NOT HIFI!
I'm sick of repeating this but hifi is NOT about whether or not you happen to LIKE the sound. It is about how closely it comes to reproducing the sound of real instruments and voices. If you don't like that then maybe when at the next live concert you attend you should tell the sax player that it sounds to harsh or the double bass player that it doesn't have enough slam and grip....
No, it's your opinion.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
There are a couple posting recently so you never know your luck. Keep trying.
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