Challenge From Harbeth - Free M40.1 For Those Who Can Identify Amplifier Differences

[Plutox]

I am happy to take the test and I have given my conditions

Earlier, you asked "does the test have to use Harbeth speakers?"

One of Alan Shaw's points is that his speakers provide a benign load, hence their relative un-fussiness. To suggest the use of other speakers is a) crass (it's his money on the line) and b) how could you prove that the load offered by your chosen speaker would not favour some amplifiers over others?

The benign load of Harbeths is one of the most important points about this challenge. Once you start making the load tricky, all kinds of naff amplifier designs start sticking out like a sore thumb.

 

[Steven Toy]

Harbeths have proven to be quite tricky with valve amps, iirc.

 

[dave]

Once you start making the load tricky, all kinds of naff amplifier designs start sticking out like a sore thumb.

Hmmm...kinda means amplifiers sound different from one another then as most of us probably own somewhat trickier loads and amplifiers.

 

[bottleneck]

before we get toooooo hung up on Harbeth's ''generosity'' for this test.. can we AT LEAST consider ...


1) it may be just a publicity stunt
2) this thread has been read over 5,000 times
3)they haven't spent a penny yet
4) Harbeth ''£9k speakers'' if judged at a manufacturing cost are probably more like £1k.

 

[lordsummit]

Steven can you stop trying to provoke other members.

[moderating]

 

[fay spook]

To suggest the use of other speakers is a) crass (it's his money on the line) and b) how could you prove that the load offered by your chosen speaker would not favour some amplifiers over others?

Hey, it is my reputation. Comparing a gentleman's reputation to money......The test is to prove that all amps working within conditions etc sound the same and not to worry about money. I would accept cheaper speakers if that helps? I want to make sure I am happy and that I can win the test so why would I want to use some speakers I had never heard etc? Are we calling ES14s hard to drive? If they favour one amp over another is not my concern. it is a bit odd to be told I have no choice over anything including speakers and then use potential tester's concerns over the "narrowly defined criteria" as an argument that people are making excuses not to take the test.

 

[Steven Toy]

Steven can you stop trying to provoke other members.

[moderating]

As I have not tried to provoke anyone I fail to see that there is anything I need to stop doing.

I hope I have the right to respond to aggressive posts aimed in my direction without being aggressive myself.

Do you consider my responses to be in any way aggressive?

 

[lordsummit]

Yes Steven and also ad hom. I wouldn't have said so otherwise.

[moderating]

 

[Stu_cj]

That's utter nonsense. If I understand you correctly, any test that fails to identify amplifier differences must be, a priori, flawed as it failed to identify what is so obvious.

S.

Yes indeed, if the person under test has previously identified significant differences in the comfort of their living room and the test doesn't reveal it then test is wrong or lacking in some respect.

Obviously if they have never heard any difference in any amplifiers before, than the test might confirm their previous experience if conducted with the same amplifiers. Though I would not suggest that would necessarily be the case a priori, as the differences should be obvious if they are a discerning listener.
Heck the difference between a Naim NAP 200 and Avondale S100 is HUGE.

 

[MVV]

And he (Mr Shaw) huffed and he puffed and he blew their house down!

 

[dave]

LOL..sounds like a Second Coming to me for the objectivists. Appropriate timing and all with Easter weekend.

 

[BlueEyes]

I've no idea how to execute the plan required but I am more than happy to have a go so if anyone can execute a plan for me so I can take up the challenge please pm me.

If I lose no there will be no loss of face as I haven't spent daft money on amplifcation convincing myself it was justified and if I win I have a wonderful pair of loudspeakers for the House of Doom aka my home.

I think it's called a no-brainer

 

[MVV]

Hey Dave:

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

 

[sergeauckland]

Yes indeed, if the person under test has previously identified significant differences in the comfort of their living room and the test doesn't reveal it then test is wrong or lacking in some respect.


Heck the difference between a Naim NAP 200 and Avondale S100 is HUGE.

Words fail me in trying to answer such utter stupidity.

I'm out of here.

S.

 

[S-Man]

Does Martin Colloms still hold this view 30 years on? Reading the magazine he now produces one would have to conclude that he doesn't.

MC holds little credibility in my view.
Have you heard his Rhythm Kings???

 

[dave]

Words fail me in trying to answer such utter stupidity.

I'm out of here.

S.

No one died or had their quality of life diminished from believing amps sounded the same or different. I think we'll all live happily ever after despite whatever the truth is so don't take this so seriously Serge.

best,

dave

 

[MVV]

Words fail me in trying to answer such utter stupidity.

I'm out of here.


Don't leave us this way
Ahhh, baby! our hearts are full of love and desire for you
So com'on down and do what you got to do
You started this fire down in our soul
Now can't you see it's burning out of control

 

[Plutox]

...I want to make sure I am happy and that I can win the test so why would I want to use some speakers I had never heard etc? ...

If it was a bet (i.e. the loss of which costing the loser equally) I would be inclined to agree with you. But it isn't. For you, all that's on the line is a gentleman's reputation

 

[BlueEyes]

where's my executed plan...

 

[Yank]

I think you'll find his "narrowly defined criteria" are more or less identical to those used by the AES in their comparative tests, but I'm sure you know better than the world's audio engineering authority.

"The AES" conducts comparative tests?

I've been an AES member, and have been to chapter meetings as well as conventions. I never saw anything resembling a standardized comparative listening test. You're saying there's an official AES Standard for comparative tests? I'll have to ask you to provide chapter and verse on that one.

In my experience, mentioning double blind audio testing at an AES meeting elecits about the same percentage of groans from the fellows, as well as cries of "here here", as we've seen in this thread. The AES is far from a monolithic body.