advertisement


Celestion Ditton 22s Are they meant to sound so bright?

D

DunkH

Member
Hi, I've bought a pair of Celestion Ditton 22s, they weren't expensive so I wasn't expecting miracles. However I'm not sure if they are sounding as they should.

They are a 3 way sealed box, quite big and heavy with I think, 7", 5" and 1" drivers. I have tried them on two systems in two rooms and they seem to sound very forward and bright, (very detailed though) I even tried using very thin wire to connect them up with and they still have a fatiguing sound.

My current thoughts are that they are either like this because they are designed for valve amps (late 60s design I think) or that the crossovers or rubber surrounds have aged and are reducing the "warmth".

Is it worth trying to modify them or should I sell them on to someone who likes this sort of sound?

Here is a link i found to a photo of a pair
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/58/74618_thumb_fbcf5a3462d2032de44c2d93109c9f9f.jpg
 
Using a thiner speaker cable will more likely give you less bass.
If the crossover uses electrolytic caps, it may be worthwhile replacing them.
 
I don't know the 22, but being a 70s speaker it may well be voiced to sit on the floor close to a back wall. Speakers on stands in the middle of the room is a very 80s and onwards thing.

Tony.
 
Celestions were/are renowned for their warm bass. I had a pair of Ditton 15XR's (still upstairs somewhere) and Ditton 44s (on their way around the family), and can confirm this. Combined with my Delta 290 at the time, they put the bass player right in your face. If yours sound too bright, then something's wrong.
 
What is the rest of the system? My grandparents have a pair on the end of a pioneer receiver, turntable and a Sony CDP, and sat on the floor close to the wall in a room full of soft furnishings they sound about right! That is probably the usage they were voiced for. Turning them upside down (on a carpet) used to be an old trick if you preferred a "warmer" sound. Could it be that you're being overly critical with them on the end of some less laid back modern equipment, or a lively room?
 
It could well be a combination of several things, the first system is a homemade chip-amp and a pc playing mp3 files, which could be bright. I did have them on the floor but not against a wall.

The second system is a Rega Planar 3 going through a homemade pre amp & mosfet amp which normally sounds fairly neutral.
Interestingly I switched on the radio at lunch time (which is an old NAD, very warm) and left them on until now at a lowish level to loosen them up a bit. They are on the floor and I have just pushed them back against a wall and listened to them again and they sound a lot better. Even through the record player.

I'm going to try loosening them up more by leaving them connected to the radio at medium volume for a while, I think they may not have been used for many years.

Thanks for the suggestions, might try them upside down as well, and have a look at the crossovers. The speakers seem impossible to take out though almost like they are glued in, and they are recessed which doesn't help, not sure how to get them out. I thought I could tap the metal surounds and put a bolt in to pull on, bit extreme though!
 
Well, I screwed an oversized bolt into one of the speaker fixing holes and gave it good pull, it came out, the gasket tape had set hard.

I found the speaker stuffed full of blue foam, I thought this might be the problem so I took it out. This made the bass a bit fuller but looser I think. I also checked the crossover and the phase o the woofer and all looks good

I then took the midrange out and checked the phase and it was reversed! Same thing with the other speaker. Strangely the red wire was connected to the black speaker terminal on the back of the speaker. The blue foam behind the midrange was beautifully cut, so I think it's original. So I will put the foam back behind the woofers.

Listening again everything sounds much better. I guess the midrange driver was canceling out the mid-bass which explains the bright sound.

I will post a pic of the crossover when my camera is charged, I'm wondering if I should change the caps as they must be quite old.

Problem solved for now though, I can enjoy them as they were meant to be!
 
Ditton 44's were supposed to be floor-standers, but responded to low stands well. Ditton 33's came later and were well reviewed. The 22's cost £130pr in 1977 and HiFi Choice recommended them for high max sound level and a very fair sound but slightly "nasal" top.

The '22 is a 4 Ohm load by the look of things, dipping down to 3.5 or so at the tweeter crossover, where the main response unevenness lies. The bass and mid should be even and smooth though.
 
Thats interesting info. Nasal is a reasonable description I suppose, I think they might just be very revealing as they sound completely different depending on what I play. I thought they were 1960s speakers, not 1977. They look older from the outside, typically English, quite solid, but they haven't wiped the glue from the joins etc!

I put the £130 into an inflation calculator I found on google and it recons that they would be £644 today, they compare reasonably to my other vintage speakers, Sony G1s which are about twice the size, but they definitely have a character of their own. I think I will use them for the radio as they are good for hearing what people are saying.
 
If you like, i could try and scan the Choice review. Just to confirm the bass and mid driver are well integrated, but the tweeter in this application has a bit of a dip at around 5 - 7KHz, the area where many "FE" speakers can be a bit "lively," shall we say. I seem to remember the Ditton 44 and the later 33 being a little this way too, but getting the mid at ear level helped a lot.

Remember, what passed for adequate but solid engineering back then would be un-sellable today and the current superb finish from the likes of Spendor in the UK could only be deamed of back then outside of Japan.
 
Ditton44.jpg
 
Thanks fr the link to the review. The uneven off axis responce makes a lot of sense as well as the peaky treble.
I have replaced all the crossover components with a motley assortment of back to back electrolytics as this was all I could get my hands on (except for the bass which I found some non polar electrolytics for).
This made a big difference, much better all round. Still very harsh treble though, so I added an L pad across the tweeter of 8ohms in parallel and 4 in series. Sounded pretty damn good. Lovely and warm with a bloom to the bass which is really useful in the small room they are in. Sounds great with reggae.
I realised today that the tweeter is actually a 3.5 or 4om unit so my L pad was worked out wrong. I have replaced it with a corrected 5db L pad but although they now sound fantastically "hi fi" I think I may change them back as I think I had accidentally improved them with my mis calculated attenuator!
 
Some polyprop caps in the crossover should help smooth out the treble. Solen are quite cheap.
 
Don't forget the Ditton 33 and venerable 44 and 66 models. Both very good too in a big-'n-beefy kind of way. I'd suggest the Ditton 25 would be better as a source of cheapo HF1300 tweeters though.

Having warned against replacing caps in a far more recent Spendor SP2, I would definitely suggest doing this in old models like this Ditton 22, which almost certainly used only electrolytics as a capacitor type.
 
I've just fired up my ditton 22s after they have been sitting unused for about 20 years and connected to a NAD 3030 amp they have a lot of bass, they certainly are not "bright", they sound quite marvellous compared to the wave music system I've been using for a few months! (but that has other advantages)
 
DunkH said:
Well, I screwed an oversized bolt into one of the speaker fixing holes and gave it good pull, it came out, the gasket tape had set hard.

I found the speaker stuffed full of blue foam, I thought this might be the problem so I took it out. This made the bass a bit fuller but looser I think. I also checked the crossover and the phase o the woofer and all looks good

I then took the midrange out and checked the phase and it was reversed! Same thing with the other speaker. Strangely the red wire was connected to the black speaker terminal on the back of the speaker. The blue foam behind the midrange was beautifully cut, so I think it's original. So I will put the foam back behind the woofers.

Listening again everything sounds much better. I guess the midrange driver was canceling out the mid-bass which explains the bright sound.

I will post a pic of the crossover when my camera is charged, I'm wondering if I should change the caps as they must be quite old.

Problem solved for now though, I can enjoy them as they were meant to be!
Click to expand...

That is correct, don't connect them in phase. The crossover is a second order which has a phase of 180 degrees at the crossover point. Reversing the phase of the tweeter accomodates that phase change.

S.
 
picked a pair of 15s, cabinets after clean was good. stripped down and replace components ,resoldered etc fitted 4mm terminals cleaned units . paid £10 for them and they sound great
 
Resurrecting ancient thread:

I saw a pair of these available very locally and pretty cheap, so picked them up.

They are in really nice condition, but they sound absolutely awful. There's barely any bass, and the mids and highs sound like they're coming from outside. I've swapped around the +/- speaker wires and I can't tell if it's any different or worse. Definitely not better.

I do have them on stands away from the wall but I can't really envisage much improvement by doing that, although I am going to try.

Short of a miracle occurring, what else should I be looking at here? As previous poster states, I wasn't expecting a revelation, but was expecting a great deal more than what at present sounds like total crap.

Just playing a CD via a Rotel 965-BX into Exposure 1010 integrated. Speakers normally Kef Reference 103.2.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top