Cartridge rabbit hole…
- Thread starter barnitto
- Start date
As to your Q about how do peeps decide on a cart, apart from 2022 when I stepped on the Koetsu trail, BGL > Vermillion > Rosewood Signature Platinum, I've tended to have a scatter gun approach.
Having now sold my RSP (middle of last year) and deciding to only play with more modest carts, if something I fancy trying comes up at an attractive/cheap price I grab it for a play. I currently have a Cadenza Blue, Hana ML & Benz Micro Ace S, H. Though the herd will get thinned once I have the new plinth (Solid Sounds) with a Jelco 750D for my 401 in play and decide which sounds best.
Having now sold my RSP (middle of last year) and deciding to only play with more modest carts, if something I fancy trying comes up at an attractive/cheap price I grab it for a play. I currently have a Cadenza Blue, Hana ML & Benz Micro Ace S, H. Though the herd will get thinned once I have the new plinth (Solid Sounds) with a Jelco 750D for my 401 in play and decide which sounds best.
Kostas
pfm Member
Cartridges can become an addiction so I suggest patience first of all. You have a very nice deck, no matter what some people say online the deck and it's tonearm can support very good & expensive MM's & MC's. Also, the Technics tonearm is easy to understand, to set it up and change settings.
As others said, you have to give time to new cartridges and new setups, use records you know well, good pressings and with the best possible production to evaluate.
Study the different types of styluses, your two cartridges can be used as generators since the VM series & VM95 series accept different styluses. Study about capacitance (it affects MM cartridges), VTA, VTF and everything that will help you setup your cartridge better.
Experiment with headshells (another addiction), they come in different height, weight etc
For the future I suggest you to try a low MC if you can afford it. I was lucky to try one 15 years ago when everything was less expensive and it became my main cartridge. To do that, you need a good MM/MC phono stage with lots of different settings, not with just a switch between MM - MC.
When you decide to invest in a new cartridge (not just a different needle) try something different than AT, there are too many brands available so don't restrict yourself.
Apologies if you already know what I suggested to study but it doesn't hurt to check your settings again and again. Vinyl will never be perfect but we can try getting close.
As others said, you have to give time to new cartridges and new setups, use records you know well, good pressings and with the best possible production to evaluate.
Study the different types of styluses, your two cartridges can be used as generators since the VM series & VM95 series accept different styluses. Study about capacitance (it affects MM cartridges), VTA, VTF and everything that will help you setup your cartridge better.
Experiment with headshells (another addiction), they come in different height, weight etc
For the future I suggest you to try a low MC if you can afford it. I was lucky to try one 15 years ago when everything was less expensive and it became my main cartridge. To do that, you need a good MM/MC phono stage with lots of different settings, not with just a switch between MM - MC.
When you decide to invest in a new cartridge (not just a different needle) try something different than AT, there are too many brands available so don't restrict yourself.
Apologies if you already know what I suggested to study but it doesn't hurt to check your settings again and again. Vinyl will never be perfect but we can try getting close.
Unless you're spending ten grand and it has to be your one and only cart, there's no harm in having a play with a few of them. At least you will get to hear with your own ears and kit what the differences are rather than relying on second hand information from a load of randoms on the internet.
James Evans
Bedroom Bodger
What phono stage are you using and what is the input capacitance? I’ve found the 540ml very sensitive to loading. Mines at 68pf with 55pf cabling. Higher loading and I also find an apparent drop off in bass solidity.
Worth investigating the rigb upgrade for the 540 as well, it really does make a genuinely positive uplift in performance for not enormous outlay.
Worth investigating the rigb upgrade for the 540 as well, it really does make a genuinely positive uplift in performance for not enormous outlay.
So true, I had a Dynavector 10x5, upgraded to a 20x something and lost the “forthright manner”/attack/fun - although I did appreciate the detail, it was just too polite (if that is the right word).
Went back to a 10x5
Timcat
pfm Member
To the OP,
I have a Technics SL1200G and one of the carts I use with it is an AT VM540ML. I am pretty sure that the arm geometry and adjustments are the same on my G as they are on your GR (the arms are different but their functions and geometry, I believe, are the same). The settings I use for my 540ML are VTF 2.1g, VTA 1 and bias about 1.8.
This cart is 17.3 mm tall (nominal). Technics state that the lowest setting of 0 is correct for a cart that is 17mm tall and 1 for a cart that is 18mm tall and so on, so the 540 should be used with a VTA setting of somewhere between 0 and 1. My 540ML tracks level with the VTA set at 1; remember that the cart's hight will change with VTF.
The 540ML takes about 20 hours to run in before it sounds right. Also, it is very sensitive to the loading capacitance. Mine sounds right with 80pf interconnects, 0pf on my phono stage plus whatever capacitance is applied by the arm and deck internal wiring (20pf?), that is to say a total loading capacitance of about 100pf.
Set up like this, the 540ML is certainly not bass light in my SL1200G.
I have installed the RigB body on my 540ML, which improves its sound; the bass tightens up and instruments are better defined. You may want to try this, as it only costs about £50 and is well worth it.
Finally, I also use an AT ART9xi in my SL 1200G and this is substantially better than the 540ML, but it should be given the price difference. However, it does show what can be achieved with an SL1200.
I have a Technics SL1200G and one of the carts I use with it is an AT VM540ML. I am pretty sure that the arm geometry and adjustments are the same on my G as they are on your GR (the arms are different but their functions and geometry, I believe, are the same). The settings I use for my 540ML are VTF 2.1g, VTA 1 and bias about 1.8.
This cart is 17.3 mm tall (nominal). Technics state that the lowest setting of 0 is correct for a cart that is 17mm tall and 1 for a cart that is 18mm tall and so on, so the 540 should be used with a VTA setting of somewhere between 0 and 1. My 540ML tracks level with the VTA set at 1; remember that the cart's hight will change with VTF.
The 540ML takes about 20 hours to run in before it sounds right. Also, it is very sensitive to the loading capacitance. Mine sounds right with 80pf interconnects, 0pf on my phono stage plus whatever capacitance is applied by the arm and deck internal wiring (20pf?), that is to say a total loading capacitance of about 100pf.
Set up like this, the 540ML is certainly not bass light in my SL1200G.
I have installed the RigB body on my 540ML, which improves its sound; the bass tightens up and instruments are better defined. You may want to try this, as it only costs about £50 and is well worth it.
Finally, I also use an AT ART9xi in my SL 1200G and this is substantially better than the 540ML, but it should be given the price difference. However, it does show what can be achieved with an SL1200.
ex brickie
pfm Member
Interesting. I’ve found the 20X (newer v2 variant) my sweet spot. Nice detail and enough punch for my liking. I’ve often thought about going up the range but fear ending up where you are - something more detailed but too polite. Given I’m happy where I am that mistake would be quite costly… (same if I tried a slightly higher priced Lyra)So true, I had a Dynavector 10x5, upgraded to a 20x something and lost the “forthright manner”/attack/fun - although I did appreciate the detail, it was just too polite (if that is the right word).
Went back to a 10x5
My experience was quite a few years ago, so fairly sure that it wasn’t the v2.
I think that so much is down to other system components, style of music enjoyed and user expectations - which in turn makes choosing a cartridge so difficult, which dealer could even consider home trials for cartridges? (I know the answer already
)
gez
pfm Member
I wouldn't even know where to start if I was still in a position to need to buy carts these days. Back when I was listening to records cartridge reviews were common place in the hifi press. I essentially worked out (through a bit of trial and error of buying stuff) what a couple of the reviewers meant when they used terms like warm or smooth or bright etc. Basically I worked out what it meant to them, and how that translated to how I heard things. So from there I was able to at least rule out carts that they reviewed that didn't have what I thought I was looking for, and then I'd try and demo a cart I'd be interested in at the price I was prepared to pay. A totally haphazard method now I look back at it, but it did eventually lead me to getting the last and best cart I ever owned (Lyra Clavis DC).
@barnitto
A few people have mentioned capacitance. AT carts like low capacitance - low enough that it can take some work to get there. Recommended capacitance for both the 95 and 540 is 100-200 pF. It looks like your phono stage has 100 pF. Technics doesn’t publish this in their specs, and people’s measurements are a bit all over the place, but it looks like the tonearm wiring is 25-35 pF, and the tone arm cable is 80-90. So if we take the midpoints, you are at 215. @Timcat and @James Evans are running with much lower capacitance. You can’t change levels the tone arm wire or phono stage without modification, but you might look for a low capacitance cable for between table and phono stage. Searching turns up some candidates (eg, Blue Jean LC-1 is 12 pF/foot), and I am sure there are others.
A few people have mentioned capacitance. AT carts like low capacitance - low enough that it can take some work to get there. Recommended capacitance for both the 95 and 540 is 100-200 pF. It looks like your phono stage has 100 pF. Technics doesn’t publish this in their specs, and people’s measurements are a bit all over the place, but it looks like the tonearm wiring is 25-35 pF, and the tone arm cable is 80-90. So if we take the midpoints, you are at 215. @Timcat and @James Evans are running with much lower capacitance. You can’t change levels the tone arm wire or phono stage without modification, but you might look for a low capacitance cable for between table and phono stage. Searching turns up some candidates (eg, Blue Jean LC-1 is 12 pF/foot), and I am sure there are others.
Howdy
pfm Member
Exactly. Getting VM95ML or AT33ev would seem like wasting time and money in current situation.
cj66
pfm Member
I was fortunate in cartridge choosing as I spent a few years in HiFi retail and heard loads of them. Enough to know, at that time at least, I was basically an AT fan boy, heavily leaning to MC, with the odd other creeping in e.g. Lyra.
Maybe dip your toe into the MC world, there is an ATF7 in the classifieds which would be an inexpensive experiment.
Maybe dip your toe into the MC world, there is an ATF7 in the classifieds which would be an inexpensive experiment.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I think the new budget AT range is excellent. The VM95E is a great starter cartridge for any budding enthusiast. A good balance of virtues and a cartridge you can live with quite happy,The EN adds some detail and extension. Im hoping to try the ML in the near future.
Hazelberry
sister
I have an AT95ml on a Rega. I don't know the arm cables capacitance but at 100 pF in the phono stage it's rolled off in the highs. It's puzzling because the cartridge measures flat. I'm looking at either a nude elliptical or 540ML stylus for my AT100e now - the AT100 body being the same as the 500 series ones, with slightly lower inductance.
The styli from the current 500/700 range fit your 120 body so plenty of options. As far as I am aware there is very little difference in the body, it is basically the same, so any of the modern styli should work correctly.