advertisement


Cartridge rabbit hole…

B

barnitto

pfm Member
I first posted a couple of weeks ago about a new phono stage, but got quite a few comments about different cartridges for my Technics 1200GR, so I took a chance and bought an AT540ML. The cart I had already was a Nagaoka MP200, which I felt was missing something for my taste.

Intrigue got the better of the other day and I bought ATVM95E, to try out, given it seems to get such high praise, and a relatively inexpensive way of practising my cart fitting (I’ve always had a dealer fit them for me previously). Fitting went well and I’ve been having a bit of listen, it sound goods but not quite right for all the music I like. I’ve now got 3 carts each with their own pro’s and con’s.

So my question is, how do avoid falling down a cartridge rabbit hole and just endlessly buying different carts to try them out, hoping to find the perfect one? Or is that part of having a turntable? Do people keep them until they have worn out and then just take another punt on something else, or rely on dealer demo’s (which are less than perfect)? Or buy them and sell them on if they don’t like it?
 
1st, understand all the needs (mechanical and electrical) of the 1200 gr and your phono stage.
Then 2nd, set your best budget.
Then 3rd, remember that it's the cartridge that is making the sound, and realise it is worth paying to hear what you want to hear
and that in HiFi there is the 'law of diminishing returns' which states that the best value for your money (sound per pound maybe, if this matters in your case) in cartridges comes around £300-500 in MM.s and 700-1200 in MC's.
4th, consider what you don't like about the sound you are getting and then research what is available to improve that.

FWIW, I own a technics deck, and think the best MM cartridge around for a balanced sound is the Nagaoka 500. For a Technics compatible MC, it depends on you MC phono stage. Tell us what it is capable of and suggestions will follow.
 
Rockmeister said:
1st, understand all the needs (mechanical and electrical) of the 1200 gr and your phono stage.
Then 2nd, set your best budget.
Then 3rd, remember that it's the cartridge that is making the sound, and realise it is worth paying to hear what you want to hear
and that in HiFi there is the 'law of diminishing returns' which states that the best value for your money (sound per pound maybe, if this matters in your case) in cartridges comes around £300-500 in MM.s and 700-1200 in MC's.
4th, consider what you don't like about the sound you are getting and then research what is available to improve that.

FWIW, I own a technics deck, and think the best MM cartridge around for a balanced sound is the Nagaoka 500. For a Technics compatible MC, it depends on you MC phono stage. Tell us what it is capable of and suggestions will follow.
Click to expand...

It’s interesting that you mention budget, because part of the rabbit hole I seem to be falling down is that the biggest budget isn’t best (to my taste)

I prefer both the AT carts to the MP200 - even the VM95e which costs 1/10th of the price!

It’s more the process that I’m interested in.
 
barnitto said:
So my question is, how do avoid falling down a cartridge rabbit hole and just endlessly buying different carts to try them out, hoping to find the perfect one?
Click to expand...
I hate buying cartridges!

You're right, it's a nightmare. I don't think there is a perfect answer. I try to borrow cartridges, they come on turntables sometimes but I have bought reasonably expensive carts to find I wasn't sold on them. It's not easy.
 
barnitto said:
Intrigue got the better of the other day and I bought ATVM95E, to try out, given it seems to get such high praise, and a relatively inexpensive way of practising my cart fitting (I’ve always had a dealer fit them for me previously). Fitting went well and I’ve been having a bit of listen, it sound goods but not quite right for all the music I like.
Click to expand...
Can you say more about what isn’t quite right, both on its own and how you see it comparing to the Nag? Also, something induced you to buy the 95 after the 540 which is the opposite of the normal order. what was it about the 540 that led you to try the 95?

If the issue is the highs, it could be a loading issue. AT cartridges want to see low capacitance.

barnitto said:
Or is that part of having a turntable? Do people keep them until they have worn out and then just take another punt on something else, or rely on dealer demo’s (which are less than perfect)? Or buy them and sell them on if they don’t like it?
Click to expand...

I think the answer is yes to each question for different people. The idea is to learn something from each one which is hopefully facilitated by asking here and talking to dealer to try to get to the right cartridge quickly.

The other place to ask would be a Technics specific forum if one exists.
 
CageyH said:
I bought cheap, and went up the range if I liked it.

How do you like the 540ML?
Click to expand...
I like it, but just missing a little something on the low end. The low end is slightly better on the 95e, but then it’s missing everything else about the 540ML…hence the rabbit hole. Do I try a VM95ML or go up to something like the AT33ev (MC) hence asking about the process that other’s go through.
 
ChrisS said:
Can you say more about what isn’t quite right, both on its own and how you see it comparing to the Nag? Also, something induced you to buy the 95 after the 540 which is the opposite of the normal order. what was it about the 540 that led you to try the 95?

If the issue is the highs, it could be a loading issue. AT cartridges want to see low capacitance.



I think the answer is yes to each question for different people. The idea is to learn something from each one which is hopefully facilitated by asking here and talking to dealer to try to get to the right cartridge quickly.

The other place to ask would be a Technics specific forum if one exists.
Click to expand...

Just missing the “fun” factor - that will mean different things to different people. I think’s it’s all around the bass and it’s interaction for me.

Honestly it was just reading the praise the 95e gets, the fact it was cheap so it didn’t matter that much if I bent the stylus (still scarred from my mate bending the stylus fitting a £500 cart many years ago)

Reading on forums and dealer recommendations has led me to my current choices.
 
Cartridges do take a bit of time to sound their best in my experience and how long this varies on how often you play music and the make, they all seem to take different times to reach peak sound quality.
As others have said, it is a bit of a challenge. Having a dealer who knows what you like can really help with the choice. I have had different brands of cartridges over the years and gone from intro level to top cartridge in a manufacturer's range when cash has allowed. My last couple of cartridges have been Dynavectors initially the 10X5 mk2 and now the XX2 mk2 and I would agree that as said before if you find a brand or series you like the voicing of, stick with it.
 
So you can up it to 2.2g, but you will need around 50 hours for the suspension to break in.
As the tip is a microline, the VTA is also very important. I would suggest you alter the VTA on the fly, as you are able to, as a small change in VTA can give improvements in sound.
 
barnitto said:
I like it, but just missing a little something on the low end. The low end is slightly better on the 95e, but then it’s missing everything else about the 540ML…hence the rabbit hole. Do I try a VM95ML or go up to something like the AT33ev (MC) hence asking about the process that other’s go through.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure I would move to MC, at least yet. I haven’t made that jump, in part because my read is that the benefits from MC come when you are higher up the ladder not from the intro options.

paulbysea said:
Cartridges do take a bit of time to sound their best in my experience and how long this varies on how often you play music and the make, they all seem to take different times to reach peak sound quality.
Click to expand...
This is an excellent point! Need to give either of these new cartridges more time.

barnitto said:
Just missing the “fun” factor
Click to expand...
The 95 should be high on the fun factor. I agree with @paulbysea that you should give the 95 (and 540) more time before dismissing them.

Is there a way to adjust VTA on the technics arm is there? I seem to recall having the arm too high or too low can affect bass.
 
Sounds like you are changing carts really quickly - yes, you get some sort of initial 'this one sounds brighter than that one' sort of thing, but the real test is when the suspension has settled a bit, and you've got used to the sound, whether it gives you greater insight. This takes time, say, 20 hours of play, a few weeks of just listening till you get past the initial excitement, and then ideally some non-critical listening, when you suddenly realise how great something sounds.

I found that Ortofons do this for me, i've had various, and they just sit really well with me. I'm also pretty sure that there are better out there, but I avoid this problem by instead buying music rather than equipment.
 
Mr Pig said:
My experience is that the more refined (expensive) cartridges get the less fun they get. There is a balance of course but sometimes it's worth sacrificing a bit of detail to be more involved in the music.
Click to expand...
The 95e sound great with the volume cranked up, listening to up tempo records.
 
ChrisS said:
Is there a way to adjust VTA on the technics arm is there? I seem to recall having the arm too high or too low can affect bass.
Click to expand...
If the arm slopes down towards the cartridge, you'll get a more trebly sound. If it slopes up, then bass will become more prominent. Ideally, the arm would be more or less parallel to the record.

However, the AT-VM95 (17.2 mm) and AT-VM540 (17.3 mm) cartridges have about the same height.
 
Cesare said:
Sounds like you are changing carts really quickly - yes, you get some sort of initial 'this one sounds brighter than that one' sort of thing, but the real test is when the suspension has settled a bit, and you've got used to the sound, whether it gives you greater insight. This takes time, say, 20 hours of play, a few weeks of just listening till you get past the initial excitement, and then ideally some non-critical listening, when you suddenly realise how great something sounds.

I found that Ortofons do this for me, i've had various, and they just sit really well with me. I'm also pretty sure that there are better out there, but I avoid this problem by instead buying music rather than equipment.
Click to expand...
Fair point, I was just having a tinker just for fun. It’s not that any of them are bad, and I’m being hyper critical when I say I’m missing something. I could easily live with all of them, just interested in how people find the one they love. I‘ve pretty much found my perfection in speakers, amp’s, streamer. Just looking for that final couple of % on the vinyl side

I’ll put the 540ML back on, as that is my favourite of the bunch, and just keep playing records for a bit!

The 95e can go in a drawer, for a rainy day or a party!
 
Once you have 40 or so hours on the 540, if you still think the bass is a bit light then drop the arm pillar a max of 2.5mm, but do it in 0.5mm steps (until your happy) with a good few tracks between changes (repeat tracks at each change). This should fill out the bass & lower mids a tad (cart tail down), cart nose down = upper mids/hf emphasis.

For a 9" arm a 1mm change in pillar height, will change the Stylus Rake Angle by 0.27°.
An easy way to judge 0.5mm steps is to make a pencil mark on the pillar then allow the pillar to drop until the pencil line has just disappeared.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top