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Can you recommend a decent headphone amp with good vfm..?

Arkless Electronics said:
Jim Bongiorno! He could make Michael Portillo look drab!:)
Click to expand...

Ouch; that’s mean …. to be honest though, the Thaedra probably won’t win any beauty contests.

Other than that (based on what I am reading) it is actually I nicely thought out and well executed design. I Like the use of stepped attenuators, it’s DC coupled, has a very low noise floor…. And it has tone controls that use a stepped attenuators as well.

I have just read a stereophile review where the designer claims “…Since the output impedance (actual, not "source") is 60 ohms, Thaedra can drive directly virtually any low-impedance headphones such as the Koss PRO-4AA and the Yamaha HP-1.”

Which is precisely what the Thaedra is doing, Its line out-put and its Headphone output are connected to the same output stage from the pre-amp.

This is where there could be an issue with the same output stage driving the power-amp and the headphones at the same time. If you use the upper headphone socket the power-amps will always be connected. If you use the lower Socket this will disconnect the Pre-Amps output when the phones are inserted thus making sure the Pre-amp’s output stage is not trying to drive both the Headphones and the Power-amp together. Try both sockets and see if you can hear a difference.

If you feel that the Bayerdynamics were a little “veiled” (I cringe every time I hear that analogy), I am surprised. Bayerdynamics are typically a bright, slightly “hot” sounding headphone. I know several musicians that swear by these for mixing down multi-tracks to stereo because they can hear directly into the mix with the Bayerdynamics, after that they put the BD’s away and fine tune the sound using a set of HD600’s. Both of these headphones are pretty much the workhorse for the mixing desk operators.in a recording studio.

If a push comes to a shove and you want to try a headphone amp, don't go overboard and blow a months salary on one. There are several budget offerings mentioned above, all of them quite good. I actually like some of the "Chi-Fi" stuff, Topping, iFi, Fiio to name a few. if you can find a local outlet to demo some even better.

But also remember, that listening to headphones is a different experience to speakers and requires a different set of expectations. You may already be driving your headphones properly and based on the circuit of the amp I am seeing that should be the case. Also don't be afraid to adjust the Bass and Treble controls. The Preamp has them so use them if you like the sound to be a little Hot then turn up the treble and enjoy. The only person you need to please is yourself. One of the greatest mistakes the British HiFi industry made was to kill off tone controls.

LPSpinner
 
Thank you two..
Jez I have no idea who Michel Portillo is, but I absolutely love the results of the GAS duo I get with speakers.

@LPSpinner : I know the Thaedra is not considered to win beauty tests, but to my eyes those kind of designs are the most beautiful of all...with the exception of maybe the CEC TL1 drive in gold champaigne,
that's so over it that it actually looks good again, I don't favour much gold, shiny, silver or any bling looking hifi at all.
That's taste...and the advantage is that everyone is right in this case. ;)

But back on topic...googling around I read somewhere the Thaedra was considered the best headphone preamp
and so on, which may lead to some thinking this thead is a bad joke.
Definitely no, I wouldn't waste peoples time to look for an answer I already know.
The answer may be partly in your last post LPSpinner...my DT880 pro gave up a while ago, which is why I got the HD540 ref II instead few days ago.
Now if the sound of the DT880 was a bit hot...I mainly used in on the computer...then the Sennheisers may indeed sound a bit tame to me subjectively.
And the difference between less intensity and very intense can perhaps come across a 'curtain inbetween' in a short test.
So, my initial question was genuine, and I'm very sorry if I came across as a purposefully misleading butthead.

It looks as if I should listen to the Sennheisers on my preamp for a longer while and get used to it
instead of pulling the trigger on another item quickly.
And maybe later find a pair of headphones that's 'hotter' than the Sennheisers but tamer than DT880.
The way back to tame from exciting often feels rather disappointing & that might be it..

I don't know how old that article is where someone made that 'best headphone preamp' statement
and if it is still valid the same way today, but even if it's just very good it may justify looking at
quite a better pair of cans perhaps.

So for now my topic question is answered ...thank you all & if there are ideas for a standout pair of cans that
are a class above the HD540 or / and the DT880 but have excellent vfm despite being dearer,
suggestions are welcome.
 
LPSpinner said:
I have just read a stereophile review where the designer claims “…Since the output impedance (actual, not "source") is 60 ohms, Thaedra can drive directly virtually any low-impedance headphones such as the Koss PRO-4AA and the Yamaha HP-1.”

Which is precisely what the Thaedra is doing, Its line out-put and its Headphone output are connected to the same output stage from the pre-amp.

This is where there could be an issue with the same output stage driving the power-amp and the headphones at the same time. If you use the upper headphone socket the power-amps will always be connected. If you use the lower Socket this will disconnect the Pre-Amps output when the phones are inserted thus making sure the Pre-amp’s output stage is not trying to drive both the Headphones and the Power-amp together. Try both sockets and see if you can hear a difference.
Click to expand...

Great post..I used the lower socket.
With the upper socket the speakers still sang which pretty much makes no sense to me using headphones.
But as said had the strange effect I subjectively found the music outside my 540s more attractive than what came in the cans...that's how this thread came to be..of which many will perhaps think I'm nuts.
But I'm really trying to use headphones with the stereo the first time, so am indeed pretty naive with anything regarding cans..

And is it any help I can use 'low impedance headphones' ?
Are there any excellent standout ones that would be hard to drive for other amps otherwise ?
 
Haven't read through posts, but if you can find one (used), the Myryad Z40 is a no-brainer for quality and v.f.m. Many others on here agree. It has 2 jack sockets, 3 inputs and 1 output RCA, 2 power levels and auto shut-off after 20 min's if no signal (useful !) It can be used as a pre. Best of all, it's equally superb on my Senn. 650s (300 ohms) as on my Focal Elears (50 ish ohms). Def. an unsung hero from an innovative but now defunct company. Retailed last (after reduction) at £400 but sold off bankrupt stock at £99 to £115 three years ago.
 
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torstoi said:
But I'm really trying to use headphones with the stereo the first time, so am indeed pretty naive with anything regarding cans..
Click to expand...

It's all a very personal thing with headphones due to different shape ears of each person.
But I've never understood the internet fascination with Beyer DT880. It was never the top-end Beyer, that was the DT990 until the T1 came along. At it's introduction the DT990 was created to compete with electrostatics, and it's current price is far too low. It costs exactly the same now as when it was first released 35 years ago. Not that I'm claiming that the DT990 is perfect......having recently listened to some very expensive electrostatic headphones.
 
Aren't the 770,880 and 990 pretty much the same headphone but closed, semi open and open? 880 fan here, I read the 990 was a bit more V shaped than neutral like the 880.
 
torstoi said:
Thank you two..
Jez I have no idea who Michel Portillo is, but I absolutely love the results of the GAS duo I get with speakers.

@LPSpinner : I know the Thaedra is not considered to win beauty tests, but to my eyes those kind of designs are the most beautiful of all...with the exception of maybe the CEC TL1 drive in gold champaigne,
that's so over it that it actually looks good again, I don't favour much gold, shiny, silver or any bling looking hifi at all.
That's taste...and the advantage is that everyone is right in this case. ;)

But back on topic...googling around I read somewhere the Thaedra was considered the best headphone preamp
and so on, which may lead to some thinking this thead is a bad joke.
Definitely no, I wouldn't waste peoples time to look for an answer I already know.
The answer may be partly in your last post LPSpinner...my DT880 pro gave up a while ago, which is why I got the HD540 ref II instead few days ago.
Now if the sound of the DT880 was a bit hot...I mainly used in on the computer...then the Sennheisers may indeed sound a bit tame to me subjectively.
And the difference between less intensity and very intense can perhaps come across a 'curtain inbetween' in a short test.
So, my initial question was genuine, and I'm very sorry if I came across as a purposefully misleading butthead.

It looks as if I should listen to the Sennheisers on my preamp for a longer while and get used to it
instead of pulling the trigger on another item quickly.
And maybe later find a pair of headphones that's 'hotter' than the Sennheisers but tamer than DT880.
The way back to tame from exciting often feels rather disappointing & that might be it..

I don't know how old that article is where someone made that 'best headphone preamp' statement
and if it is still valid the same way today, but even if it's just very good it may justify looking at
quite a better pair of cans perhaps.

So for now my topic question is answered ...thank you all & if there are ideas for a standout pair of cans that
are a class above the HD540 or / and the DT880 but have excellent vfm despite being dearer,
suggestions are welcome.
Click to expand...

Oh he's a well known British fascist who presents programs about trains on the TV and is known for wearing things like pink trousers with a yellow jacket. The designer of your amp was the late Jim Bongiorno who took fashion a few steps further still!!
 
Ha, ha,ha.. yes, I remember Jim with a yellow suit and a pink stetson or something in that direction.
While I would find the same rediculous for almost anybody else, he just made sense of it by absolutely living it..
If his batshit crazy fashion was in anyway a mirror of his genius as a designer then you
start to get an idea of what to expect.
I'm a fanboy. (Not of his fashion, tho.. ;)
 
torstoi said:
Great post..I used the lower socket.
With the upper socket the speakers still sang which pretty much makes no sense to me using headphones.
But as said had the strange effect I subjectively found the music outside my 540s more attractive than what came in the cans...that's how this thread came to be..of which many will perhaps think I'm nuts.
But I'm really trying to use headphones with the stereo the first time, so am indeed pretty naive with anything regarding cans..

And is it any help I can use 'low impedance headphones' ?
Are there any excellent standout ones that would be hard to drive for other amps otherwise ?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use low impedance phones with it if it has an output impedance of 60R.

Low impedance phones often used to be 8R many years ago.... in many cases with cheap phones this was because if you opened them up they had a little 8R speaker in each earpiece of the type used in pocket transistor radios!
They wouldn't cause Sennheiser any lost sleep but sounded lots better than you would imagine.
32R became more common later on but is also a value in which those tiny speakers were available in...

FWIW the class A headphone amp I designed and built is designed to drive everything from 8R to 600R phones to volumes way above silly and to do so without ever leaving class A whether driving 8R or 600R. The heatsinks are more like what you may expect on a 20WPC power amp and run at about 60C. It's single ended class A solid state but I only made it single ended for the novelty of it... it has high feedback and measures very good.
 
lawrence001 said:
Aren't the 770,880 and 990 pretty much the same headphone but closed, semi open and open? 880 fan here, I read the 990 was a bit more V shaped than neutral like the 880.
Click to expand...

No they aren't the same.
The crucial thing about the 990 is it uses a diaphragm with much lower mass than the 880. Differences in housing shape and venting and different earpads significantly change the sound.
You can't look at a graph for headphones and say that 'it's V shaped'. Rules for speakers aren't the same for headphones, output from headphone has to be tailored to sound right. Headphone drivers close to ears, and different individual ear shape significantly affect what you hear. That's why you won't like the same headphones as someone else, so there is no point asking strangers on the internet, you have to try them. You can buy Beyers with a flat output, you probably won't like them.....DT100.
The DT990 massively divides opinion between those who like them and those who hate them..... different ear shape I presume.
Beyer describes DT990 as 'for critical listening', you get to hear a lot more detail.
I also think the DT990 are revealing how bad many recordings are, and that is what people are really objecting to.
 
/\ There's a lot of truth to this. My HD580's only sound really good if I apply pressure to them so the ear pieces become closer to my ears by about 5mm ish. I've ruled out anything to do with a better seal etc.

Obviously this is completely impractical. They sound OK without doing this but the slightly treble shy sound is cured by adding the pressure, plus everything just seems to come into focus. For "critical hi fi listening" it makes a big difference....
I vastly prefer speakers to phones though and only really use phones for late night TV. For music I use only speakers.
 
Earpads....
the Yanks love modifying equipment. I used to read how they changed earpads and got a big change in sound. I thought 'nonsense'

Beyer DT1990 comes with two different types of pads, the only apparent difference is the number of holes on the inside face of the pad. The sound changes enormously when you swap them. I tried both these pads on DT990 (expecting to get a 1990 on the cheap), both 1990 pads sounded very different from the standard 990 pads.
If you buy cheap replacement pads from China you will almost certainly be changing the sound of your headphones.
I was astonished by how much pads affect the sound. Worn pads will make the drivers sit closer to the ears and change the sound, as Jez notices.

What happens if you buy expensive headphones and you can't get the correct replacement pads?

There is also an issue with the seal of pads which is affected if you wear spectacles.

There's more to all of this than you ever imagined.
 
Jowcol said:
Earpads....
the Yanks love modifying equipment. I used to read how they changed earpads and got a big change in sound. I thought 'nonsense'

Beyer DT1990 comes with two different types of pads, the only apparent difference is the number of holes on the inside face of the pad. The sound changes enormously when you swap them. I tried both these pads on DT990 (expecting to get a 1990 on the cheap), both 1990 pads sounded very different from the standard 990 pads.
If you buy cheap replacement pads from China you will almost certainly be changing the sound of your headphones.
I was astonished by how much pads affect the sound. Worn pads will make the drivers sit closer to the ears and change the sound, as Jez notices.

What happens if you buy expensive headphones and you can't get the correct replacement pads?

There is also an issue with the seal of pads which is affected if you wear spectacles.

There's more to all of this than you ever imagined.
Click to expand...

The pads on mine have compressed somewhat over the years yes and this has improved the sound. They are still too thick for optimum sound for my ears though... hence if I ever want to hear my phones at their very best I have to sit there with a finger on each earpiece pressing on them! Not very practical.
 
Yup, the thread is completely off topic now….

About earpads, My AKG K501’s have a silky smooth Midrange with a nicely focused detailed sound. However, they always lacked Bass, Last year due to the foam in the original pads collapsing I purchased some Dekoni Pads for the K501 / 701 series.

The difference was immediate, More BASS without sacrificing the midrange clarity. The Pads are thicker and create a little more air volume between the ear and the diaphragm. Being an open back design, I guess this volume of air trapped between the head and the diaphragm is providing some sort of loading.

I’m am going to cry allot when the 501’s finally Die but until then they are magic for listening to classical and Jazz.

LPSpinner.
 
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