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Brexit: give me a positive effect... XIV

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Spraggons Den said:
Terribly anecdotal I know but my own recent experiences of Pharmacists and Opticians would suggest that a lot of the people in that profession come from the EU and I believe we are now experiencing shortages of both.

During the referendum we were told by the Leave campaign that UK nationals would train/retrain to fill these gaps over time and in the short term we could chose where we wanted to recruit from, say a commonwealth country such as India for example, and if that wasn't suffice there would be dispensations in place to get workers from the EU.

I suspect we are about to find out if such a policy is workable?
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The Leave campaign said lots of things that have since been found out to be untrue. They might have said there were fairies in the garden. If they did, would you believe them?
 
They didn’t say there were fairies in the garden. They said skills shortages could be filled from places like India until UK folks were trained.
 
Spraggons Den said:
They didn’t say there were fairies in the garden. They said skills shortages could be filled from places like India until UK folks were trained.
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I said that "they might have said". I wouldn't believe them if they had. I don't believe them about filling skills shortages "from places like India" either. Statements like that are about as believable as those about fairies in the garden.

My fairies live under the peony and eat blackcurrants, by the way.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
You may be right, albeit they chose to come here initially which suggests their local rates weren’t as attractive back then. I don’t think it was a shortage of work which drew them here, medics seem to be in demand wherever you are. The terms have, of course, changed materially of late and I think you’re right that costs and shortages, crap services and the rest, have probably played their part. All of which have been exacerbated by Brexit of course. But my own finger in the air speculation is that many just don’t feel welcome any more; they may even have detected an increasing groundswell of resentment and hostility.
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My own experience suggests nothing of the kind - I meet many EU and other nationals in my work - and that would be backed up by every survey on matters surrounding attitudes to immigration, which show that hostility to immigration has fallen sharply since the referendum.

Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Fun fact: the UK has signed up to the OECD, and must now enact an OECD directive about reporting rules, ie must incorporate this into domestic law. In just the same way we used to do for EU directives.

https://www.oecd.org/tax/exchange-o...to-sellers-in-the-sharing-and-gig-economy.htm

I thought we’d taken back control of our own laws. Innit.
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Does the OECD possess a parliament, an executive, and a supreme Court, with an extensive and ever increasing mandate to legislate and enforce legislation across borders, a single currency and a central bank, a foreign policy and military HQ, with an ingrained culture of continuous centralisation and a commitment to 'ever closer union'?

No, of course it doesn't, otherwise the US wouldn't be a member.

But then you did say 'fun fact'.
 
“Ever closer Union” -such a filthy expression. There’s nothing quite like it for triggering the Brexit demographic. Then there’s “hostility to immigration has fallen sharply since the referendum”- not exactly something to boast about even if it were true- “one of the positives of Brexit is that we are less hostile to immigrants than we used to be”. You’ll be framing the departure of tens of thousands of HGV drivers after Brexit as a national cure for obesity next.
 
stevec67 said:
The Leave campaign said lots of things that have since been found out to be untrue. They might have said there were fairies in the garden. If they did, would you believe them?
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Oh well, if only the remain campaign had been sufficiently competent to say anything true about the positives of decades of EU membership they might have beaten off all those lies from the leave campaign. How difficult should it have been?

Trouble now is, and as predicted, hard remainers blame everything baaad on leaving the EU so only other hard remainers believe anything they say. Shame really, I’m sure some of it must be true.
 
TheDecameron said:
“Ever closer Union” -such a filthy expression. There’s nothing quite like it for triggering the Brexit demographic. Then there’s “hostility to immigration has fallen sharply since the referendum”- not exactly something to boast about even if it were true- “one of the positives of Brexit is that we are less hostile to immigrants than we used to be”. You’ll be framing the departure of tens of thousands of HGV drivers after Brexit as a national cure for obesity next.
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Given the relentless chanting here that the UK England is the most racist and horrible country on the planet it is definitely worthwhile pointing out that such types are wrong.
 
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eternumviti said:
Does the OECD possess a parliament, an executive, and a supreme Court, with an extensive and ever increasing mandate to legislate and enforce legislation across borders, a single currency and a central bank, a foreign policy and military HQ, with an ingrained culture of continuous centralisation and a commitment to 'ever closer union'?
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So you actually prefer to see the UK directly incorporating directives from organizations that have no such democratic accoutrements? This seems at odds with other positions you have previously expressed here.
 
eternumviti said:
My own experience suggests nothing of the kind - I meet many EU and other nationals in my work - and that would be backed up by every survey on matters surrounding attitudes to immigration, which show that hostility to immigration has fallen sharply since the referendum.



Does the OECD possess a parliament, an executive, and a supreme Court, with an extensive and ever increasing mandate to legislate and enforce legislation across borders, a single currency and a central bank, a foreign policy and military HQ, with an ingrained culture of continuous centralisation and a commitment to 'ever closer union'?

No, of course it doesn't, otherwise the US wouldn't be a member.

But then you did say 'fun fact'.
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Firstly, I'd like to align myself with PsB's reply, above, but secondly, the whole argument was about 'sovereignty'. The idea that the UK was beholden to nobody, and wouldn't be obliged to do anything imposed by an external body. That was rubbish then and it remains rubbish now, as this example shows, but many swallowed it whole. Oddly, it doesn't seem to have entered the public consciousness that the idea we could remove ourselves from external influence at the stroke of a pen was complete bollocks.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Firstly, I'd like to align myself with PsB's reply, above, but secondly, the whole argument was about 'sovereignty'. The idea that the UK was beholden to nobody, and wouldn't be obliged to do anything imposed by an external body. That was rubbish then and it remains rubbish now, as this example shows, but many swallowed it whole. Oddly, it doesn't seem to have entered the public consciousness that the idea we could remove ourselves from external influence at the stroke of a pen was complete bollocks.
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Although that idea has been expressed many times, at least around here, with specific references to NATO, the WTO and the OECD. NATO can pretty much commit the UK to all out war, and it doesn't even have a democratically elected Parliament or a Supreme Court where one could litigate decisions.
 
PsB said:
Although that idea has been expressed many times, at least around here, with specific references to NATO, the WTO and the OECD. NATO can pretty much commit the UK to all out war, and it doesn't even have a democratically elected Parliament or a Supreme Court where one could litigate decisions.
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Yes, that's why I said 'doesn't seem to have entered the public consciousness'. It's not like this wasn't raised at the time, but it's another example of people being very selective about the argument they absorb. Namely, the one that confirms their prejudices.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Yes, that's why I said 'doesn't seem to have entered the public consciousness'. It's not like this wasn't raised at the time, but it's another example of people being very selective about the argument they absorb. Namely, the one that confirms their prejudices.
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Yes, and I suppose we are all guilty of this, to various degrees.
 
PsB said:
Yes, and I suppose we are all guilty of this, to various degrees.
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Yes, we must acknowledge that.

But I do draw the line at accepting arguments that fly in the face of clear contradictory evidence*.


* cable threads excepted, obvs.
 
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TheDecameron said:
Confucius say: more eat air fry, more thread crap. Did the George Foreman catch fire?
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Don’t have one of those.

Anyway, I was at Morrison’s today and I couldn’t get any pepperoni for a pizza I planned to make later today. An empty space on a shelf. Obviously, brexit is to blame.
 
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