Brexit: give me a positive effect... XI

[eternumviti]

What makes Johnson's position worse, is that he did so having undermined May using the very same concerns he then threw under the bus. You can't escape the conclusion that despite your protests, he knew full well that the bulk of his Brexit audience did not consider NI for one moment and cared even less. To them they are an unecessary consideration and should just do as they are told.

The setting of the trap goes right back to the EU's insistence upon the sequencing, to which May should never have agreed. Johnson, having spent his first term with his back against the wall, had got his majority by the time he signed the NI Protocol. He should never have done so, though it must be acknowledged that the result may ultimately have been no FTA at all, lean or otherwise.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Have we got any closer to being given a benefit?
After all it cost us however many billions to get here, and is costing us millions per day now following it being enacted.

surely there’s some cost/benefits analysis being done?

 

[eternumviti]

In what way is that comparable given the proximity? Largest trading partner - I see what you did there, as opposed to value of trade.

I think you are wilfully missing my point. You asked a question, I answered.

 

[SteveS1]

I think you are wilfully missing my point. You asked a question, I answered.

Don't be absurd, if there was an ocean between Ireland and NI or a land border between the UK and US you might have a comparison. All your outpourings on this subject consist of denying the significance for the EU of this change, in a way you simply would not if the roles were reversed.

 

[Brian]

Yes, agreed, deal with reality.

We have left. No point in digging out the lute and singing about days of old when the EU fruit was plentiful and sweet.

If people want to campaign for a full rejoin of the EU, they need to persuade Labour to back another referendum. The Tories are unlikely to be persuaded, but saying that I guess nothing can be ruled out in post-covid times.

Hard remainers didn’t support Labour in 2019 when a second referendum was on offer. Some here turned their back on Labour in 2015 when a referendum on EU membership was in the tory manifesto.

Labour could make it clear we would rejoin and the hard remainers here would still not support Labour.

 

[droodzilla]

Sticking to the theme of this thread:

https://www.ft.com/content/c837135e-60be-4ec6-ac14-78d50077522244

Around one million foreigners left the UK last year.

Mission accomplished?

 

[Colin L]

Merely a start...Brexiteers still have millions more foreigners overseas to villify and blame for their own self-inflicted woes.

 

[Cav]

Sticking to the theme of this thread:

https://www.ft.com/content/c837135e-60be-4ec6-ac14-78d50077522244

Around one million foreigners left the UK last year.

Mission accomplished?

Were these feckless benefit tourists or gainfully employed tax-payers in jobs that a True Ingerlander would not stoop to sully his hands with?

 

[NeilR]

Sticking to the theme of this thread:

https://www.ft.com/content/c837135e-60be-4ec6-ac14-78d50077522244

Around one million foreigners left the UK last year.

Mission accomplished?

For the majority of brexit voters, this is what they wanted. So on these terms, brexit must be considered by many to be a success.

 

[Minio]

The only party backing remain in the last election was the Lib Dems when their "future prime minister" lost her seat.
Neither Tory nor Labour remain factions can take much heart from that.

 

[roman]

Sticking to the theme of this thread:

https://www.ft.com/content/c837135e-60be-4ec6-ac14-78d50077522244

Around one million foreigners left the UK last year.

Mission accomplished?

Do you know from which parts of the country they have departed?

I can't recall the source, but recently read that London, which is broadly indifferent/welcoming to foreign visitors, had lost approximately 700,000.

 

[eternumviti]

Don't be absurd, if there was an ocean between Ireland and NI or a land border between the UK and US you might have a comparison. All your outpourings on this subject consist of denying the significance for the EU of this change, in a way you simply would not if the roles were reversed.

Oh, sorry, I was referring to more general EU/UK terms of departure than the NI border issues specifically, where we had been discussing the latter.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'if the roles were reversed'?

 

[kabayiri]

Sticking to the theme of this thread:

https://www.ft.com/content/c837135e-60be-4ec6-ac14-78d50077522244

Around one million foreigners left the UK last year.

Mission accomplished?

Nope. Just the inevitable.

The EU has pumped hundreds of millions of Euros into the new accession countries since 2003. And when I say "EU" I mean the few net contributors like UK.

They did this with the clear intent of raising GDP per capita in places like Poland. When internal wage rates rise in Poland, then economic migrants return.

It was exactly the same here; most of the Auf Wiedersein workers returned to work here.

 

[SteveS1]

Nope. Just the inevitable.

When internal wage rates rise in Poland, then economic migrants return.

It was exactly the same here; most of the Auf Wiedersein workers returned to work here.

Ah the 'oh so reasonable' approach now. That isn't the way things were presented though, was it? You don't rabble rouse and scaremonger your way to a vote by looking at the facts.

 

[kabayiri]

Ah the 'oh so reasonable' approach. That isn't the way things were presented though, was it? You don't rabble rouse and scaremonger your way to a vote by looking at the facts.

I do think the EU failed with the 2015 debacle, with hundreds of thousands trekking across large parts of mainland EU.
It's not a good look to the world really. Mass transit could have been organised to Germany, where most Syrians were destined.

Beyond that, I couldn't personally give a t*ss about the poster, or the thing on the side of the bus.

My point earlier was that it's pointless moaning about FOM when it goes in the opposite direction to what you personally expect.

 

[Romulus]

If Ukip and all Brexiteers lived in Devon there would be no need to fight their cause....!

 

[-alan-]

The EU gave allowed itself a very broad interpretation of 'goods at risk'. Instead of then focusing on the relatively limited amount of trade that goes UK - NI - RoI, it has (inevitably) enforced full customs protocols on that broad interpretation, including on foods going into NI supermarkets and parcels from Amazon and UK retailers going to private addresses. This entails disruptive border infrastructure, and thus breaks the UK internal market, a Constitutional entity. This means that the NI Protocol is being misused by the EU, to the point where it looks a lot like an attempt to annexe NI. There are two options - pull back on the checks and paperwork for all goods not at risk, or scrap the Protocol and put customs infrastructure on the NI/RoI border. This is a choice that the EU has made, and is theirs to consider and solve.

All of this was clearly predicted by Martin Howe QC months ago.

The issue here is the potential for a very much larger flow of goods moving from the UK to the EU mainland through NI & RoI (and vice versa) devoid of any customs and tariff policing is it not ?

 

[Brian]

Nope. Just the inevitable.

The EU has pumped hundreds of millions of Euros into the new accession countries since 2003. And when I say "EU" I mean the few net contributors like UK.

They did this with the clear intent of raising GDP per capita in places like Poland. When internal wage rates rise in Poland, then economic migrants return.

It was exactly the same here; most of the Auf Wiedersein workers returned to work here.

Yes, this very concept has been used many times here by hard remainers as one of the benefits of the EU, however, these ‘furriners’ mentioned earlier have obviously departed due to brexit and the UK being packed with racists.

 

[ff1d1l]

The only party backing remain in the last election was the Lib Dems when their "future prime minister" lost her seat.
Neither Tory nor Labour remain factions can take much heart from that.

Not true. This was the only party backing the arguably anti-democratic stance of cancelling brexit if they got in. Many who backed remain saw this as step too far, and if instituted would further divide the country and destroy faith in the democratic process. In fact apart from the brexit party and the conservatives, all others stood on the rather more sensible anti brexit position that there was no longer a majority, and there would be given a democratic opportunity to express this.Labour, the greens, PC, SNP etc... These parties received substantially more votes UK wide than the two parties backing brexit.

 

[russel]

The EU has just signed an investment agreement with China. Now, you want to dicuss 'unprotected' workers and crap produce?

Crap produce like iPhones?, you do know there is not the infrastructure in the UK to even produce the circuit board for an iPhone let alone anything else, while Brexiteers have been reliving WW2 since 2016 China has gone from just below the world average of robots per ten thousand workers, slightly behind Britain, to twice the world average per ten thousand workers whilst Britain has slipped further below the world average. China has many problems, not least being human rights, but it is an advanced manufacturing economy producing high quality goods. Your view of Britain’s place in the world of manufacturing is about eighty years out of date, the UK has some serious catching up to do.