Brexit: give me a positive effect... VI

[Brian]

Brian, oddly it's the part you highlight that probably concerns me the most, especially in the light of this week's rejection in parliament of the amendment to the agriculture bill.

Many see this as paving the way to food imports of dubious quality, either undermining our own agricultural sector or adopting similarly lowered standards.

Amongst all the hyperbole surrounding world beating everything it's an area where we broadly uphold good standards and are among the best (plenty of room for improvement of course).

The Tories may yet surprise us by raising standards ( something they could do anyway) but I'm not holding my breath.

They won’t raise standards, but that is not what I asked.

We need something if we leave the EU with no deal and people are slagging off the govt for this bill. What do you suggest they do instead of this bill if the EU will not do a deal?

For someone who constantly says he's not a Tory apologist, Brian seems to accept unquestioningly everything the Tory government and its friends in the media say about 'EU intransigence'.

That’s right, I’m not a tory apologist. I am a realist, we have left the EU and we need something in the event of no deal.

The EU is intransigent according to some members here, however they refer to it as EU principles that can’t be compromised. Same thing, imo. You’ve accepted that unquestioningly.

Exactly. It gives the Tories the green light to chase after the lowest common denominator. If Brian thinks that they will raise standards, well, he has more faith in this shower than me.

No, I don’t think they will raise standards. Why would I think that?

Just stick with what I have actually said, Nick.

 

[Brian]

Sigh... typing knowing this is a waste of time, but doing it anyway.

The Good Friday Agreement, is an internationally recognised and binding agreement (and the US has legislated to protect its status) which guarantees no borders or customs and free movement of people between NI and Ireland.

The WA signed by the Tories 10 months ago guarantees the status of the GFA. For the GFA to continue NI must continue with current practices and standards and any materials shipped from GB which could be moved to Ireland should be treated as if they are being exported from GB to another EU country, otherwise GB goods, which may not meet EU standards, can flow to the EU through Ireland without the required checks.

The Tory IMB undercuts the GFA either deliberately or as a negotiating tactic. You can have full autonomy for the Tories over all the devolved governments and regions of the UK including NI, or you can have the GFA, but you can't have both.

Yes, a waste of time. I stopped at the end of your first sentence. Why on earth would I want to read more of what you write when you start a post in such an obnoxious manner?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

They won’t raise standards, but that is not what I asked.

We need something if we leave the EU with no deal and people are slagging off the govt for this bill. What do you suggest they do instead of this bill if the EU will not do a deal?

If there's no deal, then a border in the Irish Sea is one of the many adverse consequences of that, and has been inevitable, and hence entirely predictable from the word go. If the government wants no deal (or is prepared to live with no deal) then it must take all the consequences of that decision and not try dubious work-arounds. This, it seems to me, would be preferable to trashing our reputation internationally by unilaterally tearing up bits of a treaty we signed less than a year ago.

 

[Colin L]

Yes, a waste of time. I stopped at the end of your first sentence. Why on earth would I want to read more of what you write when you start a post in such an obnoxious manner?

Its your MO to ignore inconvenient facts and truth's isn't it Brian. Probably why our posts are so simplistic and your world-view so black and white with no shades of grey.

 

[tuga]

The scraping around continues.

As you noticed yourself, very old information. What’s your point?

Moving on to the present. In what way do you want Labour to amend the Internal Market bill, especially if the EU agrees to deal and the bill hasn’t been implemented?

Apologies, I really must work harder on my ironic posting (or add a legend?).



It's been a year since the news I quoted, the European Union did not cave in at the last minute and the Torys keep on extending dealdine after deadline.

Maybe the EU doesn't cave in at the last minute after all...

 

[tuga]

They won’t raise standards, but that is not what I asked.

We need something if we leave the EU with no deal and people are slagging off the govt for this bill. What do you suggest they do instead of this bill if the EU will not do a deal?

This bill breakes international law.

This bill lowers food quality and safety standards.

This bill lowers environment and animal protection standards.

This bill probably also removes protection and rights from British workers. If not this one then the next one surely will.

Lighter state is coming, Councils will go bankrupt and the NHS will see a migration of workers to the Private sector.



This bill is what the Leavers wanted for Breakfast BrExit all along... It's common to accuse commies of eating little children but BrExit is coming to get you and me and the rest of the Britons and UK residents.
We're screwed, idiots voted for this türd and you are supporting it.

Thanks Brian.

 

[Brian]

If there's no deal, then a border in the Irish Sea is one of the many adverse consequences of that, and has been inevitable, and hence entirely predictable from the word go. If the government wants no deal (or is prepared to live with no deal) then it must take all the consequences of that decision and not try dubious work-arounds. This, it seems to me, would be preferable to trashing our reputation internationally by unilaterally tearing up bits of a treaty we signed less than a year ago.

Fine. My view is a border in the Irish Sea should be avoided.

I suspect the govt wants no deal and agree in that case live with the consequences, but I don’t know for a fact they do not want a deal.

 

[Brian]

This bill breakes international law.

This bill lowers food quality and safety standards.

This bill lowers environment and animal protection standards.

This bill probably also removes protection and rights from British workers. If not this one then the next one surely will.

Lighter state is coming, Councils will go bankrupt and the NHS will see a migration of workers to the Private sector.



This bill is what the Leavers wanted for Breakfast BrExit all along... It's common to accuse commies of eating little children but BrExit is coming to get you and me and the rest of the Britons and UK residents.
We're screwed, idiots voted for this türd and you are supporting it.

Thanks Brian.

Embarrassing.

 

[tuga]

Embarrassing.

Welcome to the UK,
a vassal state of the US of A.

(it even rhymes)


And in case you haven't realised the USA is owned by big Corps; US democracy is a fantasy, just like BrExit.

Land of freedom...to corrupt, exploit and enslave.

 

[Nick_G]

Embarrassing.

That's the Tories for you.

 

[Brian]

Its your MO to ignore inconvenient facts and truth's isn't it Brian. Probably why our posts are so simplistic and your world-view so black and white with no shades of grey.

MO

Let’s be honest, Col. You dislike my pov on Scottish independence, and because I won’t tell you how I voted in 2016 you believe I am to be despised as a brexiteer. This means I’m fair game for abuse from you.

Here is some truth for you, Colin. There isn’t much I ignore, inconvenient fact or otherwise. Probably like many others reading pfm I get a lot of information from members about many subjects, not just from their own comments but from links in their posts. I read a lot posted here, including a lot of your posts but I’m frankly fed up of the petty snipes you can’t resist including. You do very similar to ET and Colin B.

The post I’ve quoted from you here is another example of your tendency to insult people. I don’t generally insult you, Colin, I’m sure you have a lot of knowledge and an interesting perspective on brexit among other things but I just can’t be bothered with your sniping.

 

[Brian]

Welcome to the UK,
a vassal state of the US of A.

(it even rhymes)


And in case you haven't realised the USA is owned by big Corps; US democracy is a fantasy, just like BrExit.

Land of freedom...to corrupt, exploit and enslave.

Your point?

 

[Brian]

That's the Tories for you.

Goes without saying, so I wasn’t saying it.

How come you didn’t ‘like’ the nonsense aimed at me in #506?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Fine. My view is a border in the Irish Sea should be avoided.

OK, we differ on that, so I'm interested to learn why you think it should be avoided. And, as a follow-up, what are the limits of 'should' in that case? When would you say a border in the Irish Sea could be preferable to other consequences?

For my part, I think it would be preferable to the UK trashing its reputation as a trustworthy party with potential international trading partners, not to mention with the significant trading bloc on our doorstep. And a border in the Irish Sea would be preferable to lower animal welfare standards, via competition from countries which have those lower standards. I believe the Internal Markets Bill risks these things.

 

[tuga]

Your point?

Wasted...

 

[tuga]

I am a realist, we have left the EU and we need something in the event of no deal.

A rosary perhaps?

 

[Nick_G]

Goes without saying, so I wasn’t saying it.

How come you didn’t ‘like’ the nonsense aimed at me in #506?

I can if that's what you want Brian. Do you want me to?

 

[Brian]

I can if that's what you want Brian. Do you want me to?

Do whatever you want, Nick.

 

[Brian]

OK, we differ on that, so I'm interested to learn why you think it should be avoided. And, as a follow-up, what are the limits of 'should' in that case? When would you say a border in the Irish Sea could be preferable to other consequences?

For my part, I think it would be preferable to the UK trashing its reputation as a trustworthy party with potential international trading partners, not to mention with the significant trading bloc on our doorstep. And a border in the Irish Sea would be preferable to lower animal welfare standards, via competition from countries which have those lower standards. I believe the Internal Markets Bill risks these things.

My understanding is people in N.Ireland don’t want such a border. If they do, then go ahead and have one. Sorted.

Wasted...

Well you keep posting stuff to me that isn’t anything to do with me, my opinion on anything or anything I’ve posted. So yes, wasted.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

My understanding is people in N.Ireland don’t want such a border. If they do, then go ahead and have one. Sorted.

I believe they don't, you're correct. But then again, the UK (of which NI is a part) voted to leave the EU, and that means there has to be a border between the UK and the EU. It's either on the island of Ireland itself, or it's in the Irish Sea. On the island breaches the GFA, so North Sea it is. That's just part of leaving and they need to gerroverit. Democracy, innit. The people have spoken. No use complaining about it now.