advertisement


Brexit: give me a positive effect... III

Status
Not open for further replies.
Brian said:
Chat? istm I’m just answering your questions and I’m flattered you think I have the answers. There are nearly 29,000 members and I’m sure they’re all on the edge of their seat at this new member’s continuing inquisition.

I have plenty of time. :)

Next..
Click to expand...

What were you saying about not being snide Brian?

Passive/aggressive seems to sum up a lot of your responses on here. The little smileys are the icing on the cake.
 
SteveS1 said:
They might if they were the ones asking for exceptionalism. This is only an unrealistic demand if the UK wants to be part of the market. It's a condition and always has been. The assurances to the UK public that you could do both didn't come from them. There was a phrase for that, it'll come back to me, something to do with cakes.
Click to expand...

What is the UK asking for that is so hugely exceptional?

Are you saying it is acceptable the EU sets conditions that are non negotiable, then the UK is criticised for not negotiating? This is supposed to be a high level negotiation conducted by adults that will affect the lives of millions. I expect all the UK wants is to do business and trade.

At the end of the day, it’s no good complaining about no deal being achieved if the EU will not budge on anything. Maybe both sides like cake, or there are other reasons the EU refuses to realistically negotiate.

I wonder if EU officials now wish they had agreed some concessions with Cameron way back before this became a real problem.
 
^ well possibly but the UK already had many unique concessions. Unfortunately this was not appreciated by enough English people.
 
Nick_G said:
What were you saying about not being snide Brian?

Passive/aggressive seems to sum up a lot of your responses on here. The little smileys are the icing on the cake.
Click to expand...

There is nothing snide in that post, just answering one of a stream of virtually meaningless questions. Some will see it, some won’t, I’m not surprised at your intervention. It sums you up completely.
 
wacko said:
^ well possibly but the UK already many unique concessions. Unfortunately this was not appreciated by enough English people.
Click to expand...
That is probably true and is something the remain campaign should have highlighted, surely?
 
Brian said:
There is nothing snide in that post, just answering one of a stream of virtually meaningless questions. Some will see it, some won’t, I’m not surprised at your intervention. It sums you up completely.
Click to expand...

Brian, you have actually made some good points in the past, but a lot of your posts do come across as surly and moody. Also, I seem to remember you suggesting that everyone that voted Leave was voting for no deal, which is a gift to the Tory idiots that you rail against!
 
Brian said:
What is the UK asking for that is so hugely exceptional?

Are you saying it is acceptable the EU sets conditions that are non negotiable, then the UK is criticised for not negotiating?
Click to expand...

Of course the EU can set the conditions for entry and membership of the SM. Name me an organisation with a member's ownership that doesn't decide it's own.

The UK is seeking to remain in all but name regarding the benefits of the SM, but wants to be free of conditions and obligations that bind the other members. It's "negotiation" is for something the EU had never said is on offer. The UK voting to leave is it's own decision, having been made aware of the terms (indeed the UK played a leading role in specifically formulating them). Can't you see the irony in such an attitude? We helped make leaving the SM punitive (presumably because we assumed it would apply to others), now we are demanding that we are somehow treated differently.

It would be like me complaining that you won't negotiate on the price of your house. You never said it was available. I can keep making increasingly lucrative offers until you decide you might like to sell it after all, but that's a whole different thing to it having been available.
 
droodzilla said:
. If people have been fed shite about the EU 24/7 for decades, you can't blame (some of) them if they believe it. That said, I'd hope this experience would make the individuals pause, reflect and put the blame where it belongs - with Farage and all the other people who lied to them for years.
Click to expand...
Don't be naive, that goes against basic human nature. For sure, people have been fed straight banana lies for 40 years, and they have adopted a set of views accordingly. They have voted accordingly. Now that it appears that their decision is going to bite them on the backside they are looking for an explanation. These are the choices:
1. You f**ed up. You didn't work out that this was really bad news. Deal with it.
2. Farage et al lied to you, you believed them, more fool you. Now read "1" again.
3 . The other party are to blame.
What are you going to choose? It's not going to be one of the first two, is it?
 
Nick_G said:
Brian, you have actually made some good points in the past, but a lot of your posts do come across as surly and moody. Also, I seem to remember you suggesting that everyone that voted Leave was voting for no deal, which is a gift to the Tory idiots that you rail against!
Click to expand...
Sorry. Genuinely if that’s how it looks. I’m actually not surly and moody, though I get frustrated at people complaining about what the govt is doing if they helped give them the opportunity.

I don’t believe I have ever said I know what all leave voters voted for, Nick. No details of deals were known in 2016, so my guess is the expectation is the govt would do trade deals with any country that wants a deal with the UK, including the EU.
 
Last edited:
The core problem is that the Tory Brexit wing is so insular that it has begun to believe its own press, despite that press mostly repeating the lies it itself commissioned. There's no other reason why a negotiator can think that they can ask for the rules of the Single European Market to be re-written because "EU needs us more than we need them" (backed up by some batshit argument about German carmakers - as if Germany was the only manufacturing economy in Europe, cars Germany's only export, and Britain its only market).

Meanwhile, the Pound is going through a volatility crisis that in previous times was enough to kill a government, the country still hasn't got a lid on Covid-19, although it's doing its level best to bankrupt domestic industry by changing its reopening rules every week or so (it's obvious these people have never worked in a business with staff and costs of sales).

Brexit is a mild scratch - it's something that a healthy body politic can manage and come out the other side of with a bit of effort (poorer, but still healthy). The Johnson government will nurture this into a gangrenous limb, then blame the people whose help he refused.
 
stevec67 said:
Don't be naive, that goes against basic human nature. For sure, people have been fed straight banana lies for 40 years, and they have adopted a set of views accordingly. They have voted accordingly. Now that it appears that their decision is going to bite them on the backside they are looking for an explanation. These are the choices:
1. You f**ed up. You didn't work out that this was really bad news. Deal with it.
2. Farage et al lied to you, you believed them, more fool you. Now read "1" again.
3 . The other party are to blame.
What are you going to choose? It's not going to be one of the first two, is it?
Click to expand...
I think some people will admit they made a mistake and some won't. What won't help anybody is the sneering and mockery in that Twitter thread, which I found quite revolting.
 
stevec67 said:
Don't be naive, that goes against basic human nature. For sure, people have been fed straight banana lies for 40 years, and they have adopted a set of views accordingly. They have voted accordingly. Now that it appears that their decision is going to bite them on the backside they are looking for an explanation. These are the choices:
1. You f**ed up. You didn't work out that this was really bad news. Deal with it.
2. Farage et al lied to you, you believed them, more fool you. Now read "1" again.
3 . The other party are to blame.
What are you going to choose? It's not going to be one of the first two, is it?
Click to expand...
What if Boris gets a decent deal?
 
SteveS1 said:
Of course the EU can set the conditions for entry and membership of the SM. Name me an organisation with a member's ownership that doesn't decide it's own.

The UK is seeking to remain in all but name regarding the benefits of the SM, but wants to be free of conditions and obligations that bind the other members. It's "negotiation" is for something the EU had never said is on offer. The UK voting to leave is it's own decision, having been made aware of the terms (indeed the UK played a leading role in specifically formulating them). Can't you see the irony in such an attitude? We helped make leaving the SM punitive (presumably because we assumed it would apply to others), now we are demanding that we are somehow treated differently.

It would be like me complaining that you won't negotiate on the price of your house. You never said it was available. I can keep making increasingly lucrative offers until you decide you might like to sell it after all, but that's a whole different thing to it having been available.
Click to expand...
Thanks for writing all that so I don't have to.

The simple truth is that if the UK wants access to the single market, it must adhere to the rules. The more the UK diverges from those rules, the less access it will have (or the more costly access will be). The EU has been clear about this from day 1 and it's a testament to the awfulness of the public debate that so many people remain ignorant of this fundamental fact four years after the referendum.

This is not to say that the EU might not make a small number of minor concessions, but these will usually be in its own interests too. I'm also sure that the EU will be happy to agree a face-saving form of words for whatever deal is announced. But if we want access to the single market, we will have to pay for it, one way or another.
 
stevec67 said:
Then you can take great pleasure in telling me about it as the pound rises to its pre Brexit figure of a Euro being worth 75p against its current 91p, brits retaining the right to move around freely in Europe, and British goods being able to be sold in the EU without duty.
Click to expand...
Isn't that full membership all over again?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top