Brexit: give me a positive effect (2023 ‘Epic Fail’ box set edition)

[eternumviti]

Just a way of resolving the conflict of belief v what is actually happening. As evidence becomes clearer, the explanations get more tortuous but usually settle on distraction of the ‘oh look it’s bad over there’ type or ‘it’s too soon to tell’ nonsense. Conveniently ignoring the fact that regardless of what is happening anywhere else, the UK has significantly worsened it’s own position relative to where it would have been.

And where do you think the UK would have been now sans brexit?

I love the I’m anti-EU more than pro Brexit line, that’s a gem.

It's a perfectly reasonable position to take, whatever you care to think of it. A lot of people feel the same way, and many of them chose to settle on the remain side of the line.

Oh and of course anyone who thought remaining within the EU was in the UK’s interests is automatically and adorer of all things EU.

Why do you feel the need to put words into my mouth? That isn't what I said.

 

[SteveS1]

And where do you think the UK would have been now sans brexit?

Without the avoidable currency devaluation, not suffering the accelerated loss (OBR - est 4%) of productivity, stronger export and trade performance where meaningful agreements have been and continue to be replaced with shirt buttons - just for a start. Then there are the companies who have either closed or reduced capacity as their markets choose alternatives, the sharp fall in inward investment into the UK where even those already established have had to be bunged to remain. Additional costs, increased barriers to trade and reduced opportunities anywhere you look.

Let’s also consider the impact on imports, higher costs and reduced choice - which after April will also increase.

None of it was necessary, all of it avoidable and it has achieved absolutely nothing of any benefit as this thread amply demonstrates. The vanity project of people with no concern for anything other than their own political or commercial benefit.

On that last point you have repeated it many times, there is never a need to put those words in your mouth.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I don't read the telegraph, or the mail, and I'm pretty sure you have denied doing so upthread, so interesting. Shame it took half a decade to convince you it is a shitshow, it will always be a shitshow, and from the frog-faced fascist farage's first spout it always promised to be a shitshow.
And as we've burnt our boats up shit creek, being paddleless is the least of our worries.

When somebody, and especially a politician, is trying to sell me something, I try to look as closely at the person doing the selling, as at the product being sold.

 

[Nick_G]

Without the avoidable currency devaluation, not suffering the accelerated loss (OBR - est 4%) of productivity, stronger export and trade performance where meaningful agreements have been and continue to be replaced with shirt buttons just for a start. Then there are the companies who have either closed or reduced capacity as their markets choose alternatives, the sharp fall in inward investment into the UK where even those already established have had to be bunged to remain. Additional costs, increased barriers to trade and reduced opportunities anywhere you look.

Let’s also consider the impact on imports, higher costs and reduced choice - which after April will also increase.

None of it was necessary, all of it avoidable and it has achieved absolutely nothing of any benefit as this thread amply demonstrates. The vanity project of people with no concern for anything other than their own political or commercial benefit.

On that last point you have repeated it many times, there is never a need to put those words in your mouth.

All of that...

...plus it acted as a catalyst for the descent towards far-right nationalism and dictatorship. Once the loonies saw a path to power, there was no way in hell they were going to let the opportunity slip through their fingers.

This was one of the main reasons I voted to remain, as I had a horrible feeling that a leave vote would embolden the far-right. I wasn't wrong, was I?

 

[SteveS1]

Some priceless nonsense and naked self interest from Dyson with a huge dollop of Brexiteer hypocrisy. He now seems to be unhappy with Hunt. Bless.

 

[TheDecameron]

We are facing far bigger threats than Brexit- a hot ross bun and flag crisis.

 

[stevec67]

And where do you think the UK would have been now sans brexit?

Steve and Nick have answered this very well, and the purely financial costs have been very well documented by the ONS and other authorities.
You have said on here that the financial costs are a reasonable price to pay. Do you feel so sanguine about the lurch to the right, the racism and all the rest? I don't.

 

[Tony L]

And where do you think the UK would have been now sans brexit?

I doubt we’d have lost the Conservative Party to Trump-clone fascism and conspiracy theory, and there is no reason to suggest our economy wouldn’t have continued to track at the higher end of the EU members as it did previously. We’d still have an export business and younger folk with whole working lives ahead if them would have vastly more opportunities and hope for the future. We’d still be environmentally responsible and connected to international human rights legislation.

All Brexit has brought the UK is decline, division, and made the vile fringe politics of the 1970s National Front mainstream. It is impossible to view it as anything other than a failure.

 

[Kirk]

Just a way of resolving the conflict of belief v what is actually happening. As evidence becomes clearer, the explanations get more tortuous but usually settle on distraction of the ‘oh look it’s bad over there’ type or ‘it’s too soon to tell’ nonsense. Conveniently ignoring the fact that regardless of what is happening anywhere else, the UK has significantly worsened it’s own position relative to where it would have been.

I love the I’m anti-EU more than pro Brexit line, that’s a gem. Oh and of course anyone who thought remaining within the EU was in the UK’s interests is automatically and adorer of all things EU.

Yeah, that was a zinger - EV must be very hardcore/pure Brexit. He must love his country.

 

[Kirk]

We are facing far bigger threats than Brexit- a hot ross bun and flag crisis.

The flag crisis was great - entire programmes and newspaper columns spewing outrage. Laurence Fox spoke at a 'protest rally' while wearing a pair of Nikes.

 

[TheDecameron]

I doubt we’d have lost the Conservative Party to Trump-clone fascism and conspiracy theory, and there is no reason to suggest our economy wouldn’t have continued to track at the higher end of the EU members as it did previously. We’d still have an export business and younger folk with whole working lives ahead if them would have vastly more opportunities and hope for the future. We’d still be environmentally responsible and connected to international human rights legislation.

All Brexit has brought the UK is decline, division, and made the vile fringe politics of the 1970s National Front mainstream. It is impossible to view it as anything other than a failure.

The howls of outrage when suggesting Brexit was a front operation for all of the above back then. The Brexit crew have finally decloaked and shown what they’re really about. Ethnic nationalism front and centre.

 

[Tony L]

The howls of outrage when suggesting Brexit was a front operation for all of the above back then. The Brexit crew have finally decloaked and shown what they’re really about. Ethnic nationalism front and centre.

I’m pretty sure the racism/fascism/nationalism was just a way to sell it to enough gammons that make up a such significant proportion of the electorate to get the desired result. I’d bet on the underlying reason being to protect the UK’s position as capital of global oligarch money-laundering and tax-chicanery via crown tax havens etc. EU anti-corruption legislation was coming after our elitist crooks real fast. Billionaires don’t care about nationalism, racism, transphobia etc; they can live wherever they like on their own terms. These are just tools with which to control the masses the way religion has been centuries. Just the current selection of idiot-magnets.

 

[tones]

I watched this oldish documentary the other day - I can't vouch for its accuracy of course, but it was disturbing:

 

[ff1d1l]

 

[Kirk]

Holidaymakers going to EU caught out by 10-year-passport rule

Holidaymakers are being warned not to get caught out by the "passport 10 year rule" which can ruin EU travel plans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68658209

 

[Kirk]

https://www.ft.com/content/4376c432-a3ee-4752-ab25-1cc5e74d87cf

Britain’s politicians are failing to champion UK trade and inward investment because of fears over reawakening old divisions on Brexit, the British Chambers of Commerce has warned.

Weren't we promised loads of championing of trade with far away places after Independence Day?

 

[TheFlash]

All of that...

...plus it acted as a catalyst for the descent towards far-right nationalism and dictatorship. Once the loonies saw a path to power, there was no way in hell they were going to let the opportunity slip through their fingers.

This was one of the main reasons I voted to remain, as I had a horrible feeling that a leave vote would embolden the far-right. I wasn't wrong, was I?

I'm not sure actually. Sorry to be a contrary voice (ok, another one) but the descent towards far-right nationalism seems to be occurring in several EU countries too.

https://www.politico.eu/article/fre...-election-poll-shows-bardella-national-rally/

Divisive, blame-driven, populist politics seems to be thriving, and worryingly so.

PS. For avoidance of doubt, I do not seek to argue that Brexit was a good thing.

 

[stevec67]

I'm not sure actually. Sorry to be a contrary voice (ok, another one) but the descent towards far-right nationalism seems to be occurring in several EU countries too.

https://www.politico.eu/article/fre...-election-poll-shows-bardella-national-rally/

Divisive, blame-driven, populist politics seems to be thriving, and worryingly so.

PS. For avoidance of doubt, I do not seek to argue that Brexit was a good thing.

Yes it is occurring elsewhere. However you would have had to have been living under a rock not to notice the scary and ugly rise in racism that immediately preceded and followed the Brexit vote in 2016. You can suggest it might have happened anyway, without the vote, but I'll say "I should coco, sunshine" to that one.

 

[TheFlash]

Yes it is occurring elsewhere. However you would have had to have been living under a rock not to notice the scary and ugly rise in racism that immediately preceded and followed the Brexit vote in 2016. You can suggest it might have happened anyway, without the vote, but I'll say "I should coco, sunshine" to that one.

I really do recognise and am worried by/angry about the rise in racism but I can't associate it as directly with Brexit as you seem to. I see the same in the US and the same in in-EU countries. It's a cause and effect thing: I guess I see Brexit more as a symptom of that rise than a cause of it. I hate both, whatever.

 

[foxwelljsly]

Not everyone that voted for Brexit was a racist, but all racists voted for Brexit. A club I am proud not to be a member of.