Brexit: give me a positive effect (2023 ‘Epic Fail’ box set edition)

[Kirk]

From Wiki:

The Beef Hormone Dispute is one of the most intractable agricultural controversies since the establishment of the World Trade Organization(WTO).

It has sometimes been called the "beef war" in the media, similarly to the UK–EU Beef war over the mad cow disease issue, creating some confusion, since these two wars overlapped in time.

In 1989, the European Union banned the importation of meat that contained artificial beef growth hormones[a] approved for use and administered in the United States. Originally, the ban covered six such hormones but was amended in 2003 to permanently ban one hormone —estradiol-17β — while provisionally banning the use of the five others. WTO rules permit such bans, but only where a signatory presents valid scientific evidence that the ban is a health and safety measure. Canada and the United States opposed this ban, taking the EU to the WTO Dispute Settlement Body. In 1997, the WTO Dispute Settlement Body ruled against the EU.

 

[eternumviti]

Did the EU take any notice?

 

[PsB]

Could Canada’s Head of State not have a word, once he gets out of hospital?

"Capital idea! I'll get my man to talk to my man."
- (cough) We've tried that, Sir.
- Oh... I'll tell them to use their British common sense. And a bit of give and take, what?
- It appears they're stuck on beef, Sir.
- I like beef. They should try our organic filet. On your way now, don't you see I'm busy?!"

 

[PsB]

Did the EU take any notice?

Yes.
In May 2009, an agreement was signed to import 20,000 tonnes of hormone-free beef from the US, in exchange for the suspension of sanctions related to this conflict. The US previously had a quota of 11,500 tonnes, which they only used partially.
In 2011, increased to 25,000 tonnes from the US and 3,200 tonnes from Canada, still hormone free. Sanctions permanently lifted.
In 2019, US quota upped to 35,000 tonnes. Still has to be hormone-free. There's also a discussion about using lactic acid on carcasses that's still unresolved.
EDIT: according to wikipedia, the 2019 agreement has a 7-year ramp up, from 18,500 T initially to 35,000 T.

 

[eternumviti]

Good.

 

[Kirk]

Article in the FT (Financial Times) covering the upcoming new trade barriers we are so keen to implement to keep the Brexit fantasy alive.

https://www.ft.com/content/6d83c96b-109f-4d6c-a7f9-57626a135bd8

"If you’ve been to Switzerland and wondered why everything is so expensive, welcome to what we have created here." Arne Mielken, managing director of Customs Manager.

But without the benefits of Switzerland.

 

[TheDecameron]

Article in the FT (Financial Times) covering the upcoming new trade barriers we are so keen to implement to keep the Brexit fantasy alive.

https://www.ft.com/content/6d83c96b-109f-4d6c-a7f9-57626a135bd8

"If you’ve been to Switzerland and wondered why everything is so expensive, welcome to what we have created here." Arne Mielken, managing director of Customs Manager.

But without the benefits of Switzerland.

Spring is coming. The inhabitants of Turnip Island can dig for victory and keep their coin in their pocket. No way we were going to accept their food standards because as Sir Gavin says, “we are a better country than every single one of them”.

 

[tones]

Article in the FT (Financial Times) covering the upcoming new trade barriers we are so keen to implement to keep the Brexit fantasy alive.

https://www.ft.com/content/6d83c96b-109f-4d6c-a7f9-57626a135bd8

"If you’ve been to Switzerland and wondered why everything is so expensive, welcome to what we have created here." Arne Mielken, managing director of Customs Manager.

But without the benefits of Switzerland.

Swizzieland is renowned as the Hochpreisinsel (high-priced island), which is why the big Marktkauf in Weil am Rhein, stragetically placed about 400M from the Swiss border, does a roaring trade from those of us who live in the border areas. I personally buy power tools in Germany - the prices are cheaper and they deduct the 19% VAT, whereas the Swiss VAT on importing the stuff is 8.1%. Having to keep a stock of Schuko adapters (changing the plug voids the guarantee) is a minor inconvenience.

 

[kendo]

Spring is coming. The inhabitants of Turnip Island can dig for victory and keep their coin in their pocket. No way we were going to accept their food standards because as Sir Gavin says, “we are a better country than every single one of them”.

EXTIRPATE !!

 

[Nick_G]

Spring is coming. The inhabitants of Turnip Island can dig for victory and keep their coin in their pocket. No way we were going to accept their food standards because as Sir Gavin says, “we are a better country than every single one of them”.

Standing next to a space Nazi. Is he trying to tell us something?

 

[laughingboy]

The free-market think tank, the IEA, has just published an article (link) that argues that libertarians like its Director General, Mark Littlewood (see here), were wrong to back Brexit. Libertarians misunderstood the nature of the EU, says the author:

The critique of the EU often portrays it as an overreaching superstate, taking over national sovereignty. This perspective, fuelled by the rhetoric of the EU Commission’s technocrats and the broader Brussels establishment, erroneously suggests ambitions for a European superstate – a misconception that played a role in the United Kingdom’s decision to leave the EU. This interpretation overlooks the true nature and purpose of the EU. Contrary to being an emerging superstate, the EU essentially operates as a collection of regimes designed to check excessive state power. The notion of the EU as a nascent absolute state is a misinterpretation of its real function: to regulate and balance state powers, particularly in economic matters.

At times, the author struggles to sustain his argument, such as when he paints the ECB as an aide to Liberty, but otherwise it's an interesting article. If nothing else, it shows that the numbers who regard Brexit as any kind of success are dwindling.

It would have been brave for a libertarian to write this article in 2019; but in 2024, not so much.

 

[TheDecameron]

The free-market think tank, the IEA, has just published an article (link) that argues that libertarians like its Director General, Mark Littlewood (see here), were wrong to back Brexit. Libertarians misunderstood the nature of the EU, says the author:


At times, the author struggles to sustain his argument, such as when he paints the ECB as an aide to Liberty, but otherwise, it's an interesting article. If nothing else, it shows that the numbers who regard Brexit as any kind of success are dwindling.

It would have been brave for a libertarian to write this article in 2019; but in 2024, not so much.

Were they in it just for the market shorting then?

 

[laughingboy]

Were they in it just for the market shorting then?

Don't ask me. The IEA maintained that it did not have an institutional view on Brexit. But its DG came out in favour, and he and Shanker Singham were later instrumental in pushing for the hard Brexit we ended up with (Greenpeace), so I'm not sure they were telling the truth.

 

[eternumviti]

Mmmm. It's very difficult to interpret the concept of 'Ever Closer Union', inscribed deeply within the EU's DNA, and consistently pushed forward in successive Treaties and in the judgements of the ECJ, as anything other than what it is.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Those three words do do an awful lot of the heavy lifting in the Eurosceptic argument, though. They are, after all, just a three word slogan, and we know how politicians love their three word slogans. I think it is possible to read too much into it, to be honest.

 

[laughingboy]

Mmmm. It's very difficult to interpret the concept of 'Ever Closer Union', inscribed deeply within the EU's DNA, and consistently pushed forward in successive Treaties and in the judgements of the ECJ, as anything other than what it is.

No, I think it's quite possible to argue, as the article's author has done, that the EU does not have imperial ambitions. Since the Maastricht Treaty (quoted below), references to 'ever closer union' are clarified so as to remove this suspicion:

"RESOLVED to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity."

In fact, the wording becomes more respectful of subsidiarity as time goes on, most recently insisting on the concept of 'openness'. See the House of Commons Library summary here.

I'm not obsessed with the issue, so I'll admit that it is also possible, as Cameron did, to argue that these words are not congruent with the real aims of the EU, but - besides the monetary union - I struggle to see significant evidence of imperial overreach since the creation of the EU over 30 years ago. If you sidestep the Euro, as the UK had managed to do, where is the evidence of progress towards a superstate?

 

[TheDecameron]

Mmmm. It's very difficult to interpret the concept of 'Ever Closer Union', inscribed deeply within the EU's DNA, and consistently pushed forward in successive Treaties and in the judgements of the ECJ, as anything other than what it is.

I like ‘ever closer Union’ with our European neighbours. If it meant shedding this Union to achieve it, I’d do it in the blink of an eye.

 

[Kirk]

"The DUP has been decisive", says Donaldson. OK.

 

[Kirk]

Swizzieland is renowned as the Hochpreisinsel (high-priced island), which is why the big Marktkauf in Weil am Rhein, stragetically placed about 400M from the Swiss border, does a roaring trade from those of us who live in the border areas. I personally buy power tools in Germany - the prices are cheaper and they deduct the 19% VAT, whereas the Swiss VAT on importing the stuff is 8.1%. Having to keep a stock of Schuko adapters (changing the plug voids the guarantee) is a minor inconvenience.

We were known - and probably still are - as Treasure Island by a lot of manufacturers (particularly car manufacturers) because we were (and still are) easy to fleece.

Switzerland is indeed expensive but not quite as eye-watering expensive as Norway. Never buy an ice cream in Oslo Airport.

 

[cosimoss]

"The DUP has been decisive", says Donaldson. OK.

By their standards almost taking two years it just that.