Like this:
‘We’re out of step’: how post-Brexit UK is drifting from EU standards
The UKCA quality standard is imposing unwelcome costs, from chemicals to construction materials
Brexit: give me a positive effect (2023 ‘Epic Fail’ box set edition)
- Thread starter eternumviti
- Start date
You know a great deal more about the EU than most people here, myself included.
You focus on the democratic (or lack of) process within the EU; and that has outweighed all the benefits of membership, and the obvious damage Brexit has caused.
I disagree with you on Brexit. But you are the only person, on PFM at least, that has made a learned case for it.
And the perseverance to keep making it. Chapeau.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I think PsB should be acknowledged as his course tutor though. You could watch EV learning quickly on the job in response to what were very detailed expositions of EU Law, treaty history and Britain’s role as a ‘senior partner’ within Europe . Prior to that it was as clear a case of ukipiosis regurgitans as you’re likely to see.
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PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
While I have no idea what you meant with the second sentence, that first one is a work of art. Is that anti-EU but not pro-Brexit? Very anti-EU but only mildly pro-Brexit? Vaguely disappointed by Brexit? Very anti-EU, always, and Brexit-shy only when facing yet another example of HMG's incompetence at running an actual border? Please enlighten us.
If you're against the EU and weren't terribly keen on Brexit, what were you hoping for when you ticked the box in 2016? Surely not joining the USA or CIS, so what? Immediate collapse of the EU, to be replaced by a sensible Common Market à la EFTA? I would've thought anybody voting to leave the EU would have a pretty definite idea of what Brexit he/she was looking for, but maybe that's too pragmatic.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
There you have it- Brexit as homage to King Pyrrhus. The same language was used not only by the British far right, ukip et al but by significant elements within Britain’s ruling party- the wish for destruction of the European Union, even at considerable cost to their own country.
And Lo! the bogus Roger Waters moment arrived:
And Lo! the bogus Roger Waters moment arrived:
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ff1d1l
pfm Member
Shurely shome mishtake... perseverance....pig-headedness?
Colin L
High-tech low-life
No, just typical public schoolboy arrogance and obstinate overconfidence in the face of contradictory facts. Say it loud and confidently and the plebs will fall into line and tug their forelock. The bane of UK is our shit privately educated politicians with Cameron, Spaffer and Rishi as exemplars. I’ve said often that EV is a natural Tory politician.. Sophistry turned up to the max and damn the consequences and facts.
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Nero
Re: Tired
Will you be gone some time?
Nero
Re: Tired
Is this the after-show chat? Are we reaching the end of this thread? Mine’s a nice Crianza. What’s yours?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Nero, you wicked draft dodger you.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
This, the once in a century metaphor for Brexit. Eclipsing other heroic failures, Crimea (the genius and humanity of Florence Nightingale aside), Suez, Rorke’s Drift, Spion Kop ( the bloody Dutch) and looking beyond Blighty- Moses forgetting to part the Red Sea on time.
I wonder how many of them will drop the Tories in the upcoming GE.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Sadiq Khan calls for restoration of reciprocal free movement for young people to study and work in the UK and EU. 61% of Londoners believe the UK should rejoin Europe while the dementing Tory Mayoral candidate ( who temporarily lost her purse and claimed a brown person stole it) is sworn to keep ramming Brexit down Londoners’ throats.
www.theguardian.com
Sadiq Khan: ‘Free young people from Brexit work and travel ban’
London mayor calls for ‘youth mobility agreement’ in one of the most pro-European interventions by a Labour politician since EU exit
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Nowt wrong with a Stella on a hot summers day - especially from one of their chalice's.
German far-right leader hails Brexit as ‘model for Germany’
https://www.ft.com/content/5050571e-79f9-4cb7-991c-093702ec8833She intends to hold a referendum. Brexiteers here will no doubt be delighted.
The bitter lessons of Brexit:
https://www.ft.com/content/717c3c59-795b-4620-ad9b-a44a359077ca
"It shows how a classic populist alliance of fanatics and opportunists mixed simplistic analysis with heated rhetoric and outright lies to weaken the UK’s most important economic relationship and threaten its domestic stability."
https://www.ft.com/content/717c3c59-795b-4620-ad9b-a44a359077ca
"It shows how a classic populist alliance of fanatics and opportunists mixed simplistic analysis with heated rhetoric and outright lies to weaken the UK’s most important economic relationship and threaten its domestic stability."
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
Yebbut a bit unfair to Scott, I feel: he actually planned his expedition. Maybe not as meticulously and thoroughly as Amundsen, but a lot more than anything by Cameron, Johnson or any of the other chancers.
Nero
Re: Tired
I’m reading about the English Armada at the moment. A glorious failure if ever there was one.
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eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I find your preoccupation with the fact that I attended a private school quite telling and prejudicial, loaded with plenty of assumptions of your own, most of them based on what it is quite clear you see as 'the Eton model'. I was the son of a publican (and went on to become one myself, in the outer reaches of London's East End), and my co-pupils included a large contingent of the sons of pretty humble west country dairy farmers for whom battered Landrovers were the standard mode of transport, together with a rich mish-mash of the sons and daughters of people in the armed and foreign services, and government ministers & civil servants (probably corrupt - the then Bangkok police chief managed to send two of his own and three of his sister's kids to the school) and the odd businessman from a wide range of Asian, Middle Eastern and African countries. Oddly, on reflection, I recall very few Europeans. But, with a few notable exceptions, we certainly didn't see ourselves as 'an elite', and most of our parents - bar those of the Asian, ME and East African contingents - were pretty impecunious.
My reference to Stella was flippant, and was largely a reference to a certain aggression, or as you refer to it, 'taking the piss'. I can get the Islay Malt thing, it carries a certain self-image of 'the thinking man'.
What kind of a racist did you see me as then?
Of which more below..
That's a very complex matter. I would suggest that xenophobia and racism have always existed, and always will, in certain social layers in all societies - it is in fact a normal human response to perceived outside threat, and one to which the only plausible answers lie in the realms of parenthood and education. Brexit has become the focal point around which the so-called culture wars are being fought, in which the vote to leave the EU project itself has been delightedly leapt upon by the far left as a xenophobic act so pure that it has become in their minds a cipher for hatred, all of which is of course utter drivel, and appallingly divisive to boot. Survey after survey has shown that post-Brexit attitudes to immigration are by large measures positive, indeed amongst the most so in Europe and the west, even against a backdrop of record net immigration figures, and we live in a society which is by and large contentedly multiracial, from top to bottom. It isn't perfect, certainly, and there are clear issues around the apparently insoluble permeability of the borders increasingly stoking far-right sentiments not just here but across the west.
I'm just as appalled as you are with this ugly obsession with Rwanda, and sadly, by the robotic Sunak himself - it promised much for this country to have a Hindu PM. I agree with much that you have to say elsewhere on this government, which is not conservative in any sense that I would understand it. It has though, again, nothing to do with Brexit per se. A number of EU countries, and indeed the EU itself, are actively considering similar schemes, though I recall that you have stated in the past that you would support such interventions (quasi-concentration camps in Libya etc) from the EU as it would be in your view 'democratic' and 'consensual'.
You again characterise Brexit as a 'Tory' project. It is worth reminding you again that EEC/EU membership was from the outset, and remained, an overwhelmingly tory undertaking. The left, for extremely valid democratic reasons, were traditionally opposed, and were only enticed to the party by Delorsian assurances of a 'social Europe'.
This 'fellow travellers' trope is one of the most ugly and insidious employed by the EUphile far left, and you do it constantly. It isn't just that it wilfully ignores the anti-immigrant antics of the EU itself, it is worse still. It is a fallback position of those who cannot tolerate dissent from their own point of view, yet have no coherent argument of their own - you have no coherent response to my case against the EU institutions, so default to abuse, misrepresentation and namecalling. There's a word for it in the English language, and it isn't a pretty one. I don't think that easy resort to it does you any favours.
None, as ever. The faithful are the faithful however often their chosen one f**ks the neighbour.