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Bookshelf speakers for naim nait 3 & rel quake

I bought second hand ES11s based purely on reviews and rate them very highly, but as many of these reviews said, they do require very careful placing to deliver of their best. An inch or two either way can make a lot of difference. FWIW mine are on the matching Epos stands, roughly 20cm from the front wall and 50cm from side walls, toed in about 10 - 15 degrees. Listening nearfield they sound sublime to me.

And just to comment on the risk side of this, mine were bought from a member of this parish and - as has been the case with every item I've bought via pfm (speakers, amp, DAC, phono stage and more) - they were exactly as described and the transaction was hassle-free.
 
The es11 is a highly regarded speaker so I conclude that what I bought was something that looked like es11s but was not. It was not a case of personal taste or what works for my ears or speaker placement or anything like that, they sounded horrible. I’m reluctant to waste the time of the people in the local hifi shop as I’m unlikely to buy anything from them. The AE aegis evo ones sound good and perhaps I’m not going to get the upgrade in sound quality I’m looking for with any other speaker although evo ones weren’t very expensive new and I see them going for around £65 second hand. I’m even tempted to get a black pair and sell my creamy yellowy wood colour ones just to match my decor. Despite my earlier comments I might take my amp and speakers to the hifi shop on a weekday morning or sometime when they might not be busy.
 
I don’t know what flat and round earth is. I have the speakers literally on top of bookshelves with some acoustic foam or “monitor isolation pads” between the speakers and the bookshelves. Seems like a lot of hassle to post a pic. Thanks everyone for your comments.
 
Bob793 said:
I don’t know what flat and round earth is.
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Flat earth: emphasis on Pace, Rhythm and Timing (PRAT), source-first philosophy, subjectivist (care about how it sounds not how it measures). Example advocates: Linn, Naim

Round earth: emphasis on neutrality, flat frequency response, "closest approach to the original sound", low distortion and balanced approach to system building. Example advocates: Quad, B&W

Tim
 
I have not found a measurement of the ES11. The later ES12 has a notable peak at the port tuning of about 60Hz.
The sock in the port trick might make it easier to integrate with the sub.
 
Bob793 said:
I don’t know what flat and round earth is. I have the speakers literally on top of bookshelves with some acoustic foam or “monitor isolation pads” between the speakers and the bookshelves. Seems like a lot of hassle to post a pic. Thanks everyone for your comments.
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Ok Epos faulthy
I guess something else must be wrong here..?
Source perhaps? Setup ?
I find it strange, no diff detected when change to long speaker cables.
Personally I'd never use short cable lenght on any Olive/CB kit.
 
I got a refund for the es11s and am still looking for speakers. Now wishing I’d gone for the Q acoustic concept 20s.
 
Similar but not identical it seems and price too high in comparison concept 20s sold for £160. Thanks for the offer
 
Tried q acoustic concept 20 but they’re going back too. Sound good but not as good as AE aegis evo one. Harshness in high mids. Annoying sibilants. Good clarity though. Anyone compared ae300 to aegis evo one? Is it a significant upgrade?
 
I just bought some Epos E11s to scratch the itch and see if their kudos is justified. Firstly I had to make some Y shaped jumpers as I don't do bi wiring as a rule, it would help if I hadn't wired them out of phase initially lol. They sounded awful and I realised something was wrong. Once I got the wiring sorted and on their original stands which I got with them about 18" from wall which is the max I can do in my room I was very impressed. Lovely sweet midrange and detailed treble, maybe slightly soft bass but not bad. My system is PC sourced wav and flac files through foobar. The rest is Naim 202/200/HiCap and DAC V-1.
I would say definately give them a try if you can find a decent pair at the right price. The only thing is I don't like black speakers but good wood finish examples are like rocking horse shi.......
 
What do you mean by wiring them out of phase please? I connected the top and bottom sockets with a short piece of wire and some banana clips. It was inconvenient not to have any bridging pole or strip, making a quick a b comparison impossible. However, since the epos es11 speakers I had sounded so clearly worse than the ones I’m used to there was no need.
I’d prefer black speakers personally because my bookshelves are black. After trying the QA concept 20 which came with foam bungs, I put foam in the rear ports of my AE aegis evo 1s, moved them close to the wall and adjusted my sub. They sound even better than before, bottom end is clearer and I don’t have to worry about proximity to the wall.
 
I don’t think I connected the epos es11s out of phase (looked up what that means) but I suppose it’s possible. I like having the speakers close to the back wall, if I get another pair of es11s (because they ‘should’ sound good) will I be able to bung the rear port without losing sound quality in the mid and high frequency range? I can adjust my sub to compensate for reduction in bass. Still tempted to get a black pair of AE aegis evo 1s as they sound pretty good and are selling for as little as £50 on eBay. Es11s ‘should’ sound better, maybe I’ve connected out of phase or maybe the pair I had were faulty?
 
ES11s are designed to be used close to the rear wall:-

Screenshot-2020-01-29-Untitled-3-Epos-ES11-pdf.png


(From the ES11 instruction 'leaflet')
 
My speakers are currently 20mm from the back wall with the port plugged. This is ideal for me. Before I plugged the holes I had them 15cm from the wall. Any further forward and they’d fall off the bookshelves they’re sitting on. I don’t want to surrender the amount of floor space required for stands. I’m asking if I can plug the holes in the es11s without losing sound quality? When plugging the aegis evo 1s the bass is reduced but not much, if any, difference in mids and highs. With sub: bass is actually improved because I can listen to everything without wanting to adjust the sub eg I mostly listen to folk, world, jazz music but also like funk and soul. Before I plugged the ports I had to settle on a compromise position where bass was slightly too weak on folk/acoustic (same for movies) and slightly too much on funk, soul, pop etc. It’s now about right for almost everything. This was not really an issue for me because the mids and high frequencies are where most of the music happens and with low frequencies represented it sounds warm and provides a sense of scale. A tiny bit of boomyness I can live with. I’m delighted to have overcome that issue by bunging the ports though, with the added bonus I can place the speakers right up to the wall. Any harshness or muddiness in the middle or top are less tolerable to me.
 
Just seen Linn Keilidh speakers with Qstone bases for extra stability available locally. Would they be a good match with naim nait 3?
 
Bob793 said:
Just seen Linn Keilidh speakers with Qstone bases for extra stability available locally. Would they be a good match with naim nait 3?
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Yes they would be. I ran a pair on the end of a 92/90 which was the same power rating, very fine speakers.
 
Any opinions on lying linn keilidhs on their side on top of bookshelves near back wall with bungs? Maybe stand them on top normal way up on bookshelves without stands? Bookcases are 3’ or 92cm high so tweeter would be closer to height of listening position when on their side.
 
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