advertisement


Bill Turnbull RIP

paulfromcamden said:
Anyway, hopefully both of us have a few decades more of posting nonsense on hi-fi forums :)
Click to expand...

Would be nice but I’m fully accepting of the fact I’ve got perhaps a yr or two left before I need 24hr help for absolutely everything due to the rapid progression of my ms (took 20yrs to finally get a diagnosis and by that point it had developed into spms so no treatment available), got my vials of diamorphine at the ready as I seriously doubt I’ll accept such intrusive help just to exist as a head on a stick
 
Somafunk said:
Would be nice but I’m fully accepting of the fact I’ve got perhaps a yr or two left before I need 24hr help for absolutely everything due to the rapid progression of my ms (took 20yrs to finally get a diagnosis and by that point it had developed into spms so no treatment available), got my vials of diamorphine at the ready as I seriously doubt I’ll accept such intrusive help just to exist as a head on a stick
Click to expand...
Would just like to echo what Steve said above; best wishes to all who are suffering or afflicted.
 
Good Afternoon All,

Speaking as some one who had the offending part removed back in January 2012................

My grandfather and father both died as a result of prostrate cancer so there is definitely a genetic pre-disposition (my two sons are obviously aware of the possibility they may face this issue down the line).

Mine was 'found' as a result of a pre-employment medical for Chevron that included a PSA test which, as I recall, returned a result of 8+.

The biopsy is one of those events in life you don't forget. Grabbing ten samples through the rectal wall and blood stained semen stick in your mind. Mine was diagnosed as a very localised Stage 4 cancer (after an MRI scan) which clearly needed dealing with. I also then had a colonoscopy and a full X-Ray body scan to determine if there had been any spread - there hadn't fortunately.

Kate and I were faced with the choice of chemo or X-ray therapy or removal. My doctor was of the opinion that the former were OK but didn't always work and made removal of the offending item later all the more challenging. Given the nature of my employment we went for the radical prostatectomy (now spelt correctly!!) route.

Urinary retention and erectile dysfunction risks go alongside this so each individual would have to reach their own conclusion. No problem with the former and some impact on the latter but "workable".

Anybody who wants to take a discussion offline is welcome to PM me.

Unfortunately I've been there and got the 'T' shirt.

Regards

Richard
 
Last edited:
Somafunk,

Somafunk said:
Would be nice but I’m fully accepting of the fact I’ve got perhaps a yr or two left before I need 24hr help for absolutely everything due to the rapid progression of my ms (took 20yrs to finally get a diagnosis and by that point it had developed into spms so no treatment available), got my vials of diamorphine at the ready as I seriously doubt I’ll accept such intrusive help just to exist as a head on a stick
Click to expand...

Ah, man. I really do not know what to say, but please accept my wishes that you have many years of good life ahead.

Joe
 
Ahh it’s fine, I don’t dwell on it personally but It’s best to be open about it rather than have an everything’s fine mentality, it’s hard for my mum as she has to do my cooking/cleaning/washing etc which no parent should have to do for their kids and she knows what’s coming for me. I can currently manage to get myself up/get dressed and move to seat in living room but that’s about it as utter fatigue sets in, if I try and do much else muscle spasms set in which make my entire body do the funky chicken, quite amusing but not really practical as you try and make an espresso:confused: , thank god for my music as listening very loud 10hrs+ a day really does remove the head from dwelling on personal situations and what ifs.

Anyway….no more from myself, let’s get back to dysfunctional dick & bollocks talk, that can save lives :)
 
gustavm said:
What's your view then? I am speaking from personal experience here, having just had the surgery a few weeks ago, trying to give helpful advice to others.
Click to expand...
I’ve given my view in my very first post on the topic.
The topic is fairly complex. I was asked to write a paper on the issue about 4 years ago by a charity who were considering offering a free PSA screening service for men who were too embarrassed to go to their GP etc.
On reviewing the literature I found that screening is actually not recommended by the NHS or any of the prostate cancer charities, the reasons which are well documented, including lives not being saved in statistically significant numbers.
Of course, if you are the one person who has a random test which shows a level of, say 15, you will probably end up having prostate cancer, found early, and you get it treated. You then extol the virtues of random PSA screening because it saved your life.
Sadly, this does not stand up to statistically save lives, and there are many impotent, incontinent men walking around because surgery has been performed on tumours found fairly early, which may never have harmed them.
Likewise, there are those with normal PSAs, yet have prostate cancer which kills them.
The one caveat in all this is that multi parametric MRIs are proving very accurate and serial PSAs and scans may yet prove to be the way to go.
There are also other markers which are more specific for cancer than PSA, and these may be the future in screening.
Sorry for the long post.
 
RIP Bill. Used to like watching the Bill and Sophie double act on the news in the morning.
 
Somafunk said:
Would be nice but I’m fully accepting of the fact I’ve got perhaps a yr or two left before I need 24hr help for absolutely everything due to the rapid progression of my ms (took 20yrs to finally get a diagnosis and by that point it had developed into spms so no treatment available), got my vials of diamorphine at the ready as I seriously doubt I’ll accept such intrusive help just to exist as a head on a stick
Click to expand...
SF, I appreciate you posting that, thank you.
 
doctorf said:
I’ve given my view in my very first post on the topic.
The topic is fairly complex. I was asked to write a paper on the issue about 4 years ago by a charity who were considering offering a free PSA screening service for men who were too embarrassed to go to their GP etc.
On reviewing the literature I found that screening is actually not recommended by the NHS or any of the prostate cancer charities, the reasons which are well documented, including lives not being saved in statistically significant numbers.
Of course, if you are the one person who has a random test which shows a level of, say 15, you will probably end up having prostate cancer, found early, and you get it treated. You then extol the virtues of random PSA screening because it saved your life.
Sadly, this does not stand up to statistically save lives, and there are many impotent, incontinent men walking around because surgery has been performed on tumours found fairly early, which may never have harmed them.
Likewise, there are those with normal PSAs, yet have prostate cancer which kills them.
The one caveat in all this is that multi parametric MRIs are proving very accurate and serial PSAs and scans may yet prove to be the way to go.
There are also other markers which are more specific for cancer than PSA, and these may be the future in screening.
Sorry for the long post.
Click to expand...

I've not been posted here for quite some time and you've absolutely no need to apologise.
So thank you for your considered and well-thought out response (which might have been a bit awkward/difficult to post) considering your professional position.
It doesn't seem to be such an easy or straightforword problem as it appears.
However, I'm one of four brothers - one deceased (heart + unspecified issues) eldest whose undergone surgery for prostate cancer and next oldest has enlarged prostate.
I was warned by my two eldest Brothers to get checked for PSA levels - GP was not particularly worried by results.
That was at about 7 years ago - now nearly 63 and not had any further contact with GP (except Flu jab about a year ago).

Not looking forward to what coming down the pipeline for me (ironic as I'm a gas engineer).

Best regards
Dave.
(P.S.I've told both of my Sisters that they are perfectly OK on this front).
 
paulfromcamden said:
Your post made me go and look up prostate cancer symptoms as I didn't know what they were. I'm sure most members are far better informed but just in case:

difficulty starting to urinate or emptying your bladder
a weak flow when you urinate
a feeling that your bladder hasn’t emptied properly
dribbling urine after you finish urinating
needing to urinate more often than usual, especially at night
a sudden need to urinate – you may sometimes leak urine before you get to the toilet.

https://prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/about-prostate-cancer/prostate-cancer-symptoms
Click to expand...

I’ve had a moderate/severe case and it was without any symptoms. I haven’t read the thread but understand there have been some big advances recently in both detection and treatment.
Previously the only test was PSA. It wasn’t very reliable and also gave a positive to cancers that were so mild they would only kill you if you lived to a120ish. Causing more anxiety than was good for your health.
Part of my treatment was being chemically castrated for three years. Very effective.
 
Richard Lines said:
Good Afternoon All,

Speaking as some one who had the offending part removed back in January 2012................

The biopsy is one of those events in life you don't forget. Grabbing ten samples through the rectal wall and blood stained semen stick in your mind. Mine was diagnosed as a very localised Stage 4 cancer (after an MRI scan) which clearly needed dealing with. I also then had a colonoscopy and a full X-Ray body scan to determine if there had been any spread - there hadn't fortunately.

Richard
Click to expand...

Not dismissing your experience of a biopsy Richard, but I would really not want anyone contemplating one to be too put off by your description. I have had two, but both transperineal (to the rear of the scrotum) and done with a painkilling injection. This is a different procedure to yours (via the rectal wall) which I have no direct experience of. I've no idea which is the more common, or if any degree of choice is possible, but I'm guessing that as an NHS patient you get whatever your hospital chooses to support.

I thought it important to say though that I would describe the experience as uncomfortable rather than painful, and not a thing to be over-anxious about, if there is a medical need. The aftermath was a little discomfort, some blood in urine for a week or so afterwards (though a very small amount of blood can add considerable colour!) and as you say, rusty brown semen for a few times, but as long as you (and your partner!) know to expect this, I don't see this as being particularly worrisome.

Glad you sound like you have recovered - I had my op 3 weeks ago, and still await the histology report.
 
MUTTY1 said:
I’ve had a moderate/severe case and it was without any symptoms. I haven’t read the thread but understand there have been some big advances recently in both detection and treatment.
Previously the only test was PSA. It wasn’t very reliable and also gave a positive to cancers that were so mild they would only kill you if you lived to a120ish. Causing more anxiety than was good for your health.
Part of my treatment was being chemically castrated for three years. Very effective.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think the issues with PSA results are well documented. But (in my case) the follow up of MRI and then biopsy gave a more definite diagnosis, leading to a period of "active surveillance" before action became highly advisable. Always dangerous in such matters to extrapolate from one person's experience to a general rule, and I can see that others may take a rational decision not to take a PSA test. I'm extremely glad I did though, and have been urging friends of similar age to do the same.
 
doctorf said:
I’ve given my view in my very first post on the topic.
The topic is fairly complex. I was asked to write a paper on the issue about 4 years ago by a charity who were considering offering a free PSA screening service for men who were too embarrassed to go to their GP etc.
On reviewing the literature I found that screening is actually not recommended by the NHS or any of the prostate cancer charities, the reasons which are well documented, including lives not being saved in statistically significant numbers.
Of course, if you are the one person who has a random test which shows a level of, say 15, you will probably end up having prostate cancer, found early, and you get it treated. You then extol the virtues of random PSA screening because it saved your life.
Sadly, this does not stand up to statistically save lives, and there are many impotent, incontinent men walking around because surgery has been performed on tumours found fairly early, which may never have harmed them.
Likewise, there are those with normal PSAs, yet have prostate cancer which kills them.
The one caveat in all this is that multi parametric MRIs are proving very accurate and serial PSAs and scans may yet prove to be the way to go.
There are also other markers which are more specific for cancer than PSA, and these may be the future in screening.
Sorry for the long post.
Click to expand...

I was not advocating a national screening program, but it is worth highlighting that your GP should support a PSA test on request (at least for men above a certain age) as part of the "Informed Choice" guideline. I was told by one professional that with PSA level only marginally above the NHS limit (5.2) the chances of cancer being present was about 25%. I've seen no verification of that figure, but perhaps you would know, if so please feel free to correct if this is wildly wrong. Also it would be interesting know exactly what the correlation is between PSA and incidence & severity of prostate cancer levels as a function of age (because I really don't know if 5.2 is a significant or fairly arbitrary value). In my case, looking at PSA results for the previous 3 or 4 years did show a gradual increase from a much lower value.

Of that 25% presumably some proportion will be harmless, but the route of MRI scan and possible biopsy hopefully gives a strong indication of the potential threat? I'm told that some people when diagnosed with any level of cancer find it very hard to live with, and elect for early treatment, even though it is very far from certain that it would ever develop to cause a major problem. Personally I did not find living with the diagnosis too difficult, and spent some time on Active Surveillance before having treatment. Hence "Informed Choice" seems a reasonable approach to allow for different attitudes to life.
 
Bob McC said:
NHS view on PSA
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/psa-testing/
Click to expand...

I suspect the NHS is somewhat behind the curve in cancer testing / early detection if the experience of both of my parents is anything to go by. AFAICT the NHS is currently near useless for rapid diagnosis of serious illness, whether due to under-funding, under-staffing (thanks Brexit), or the endless reorganizations. I think 10+ years of Tory government have near destroyed it - just like it was in the late 90s after the last Tory innings.

Anyway, to the subject of PSA - I think the latest thinking is that
- annual PSA testing is not necessary, and may lead to more harm than good
- many men may only benefit from one test every 5-10 years (https://www.urologytimes.com/view/single-psa-test-45-may-predict-aggressive-pca)
- a high PSA should be repeated, and followed by MRI of the prostate before considering biopsy (since biopsy is not without risk).
- You have to prep for the PSA (no ejaculation for at least 3 days, no riding a bike for 5+ days).

this was the advise from a urologist I saw earlier this year. I think eventually infrequent PSA testing may be found to be useful and cost effective, but I suspect the NHS will be slow to adopt it.
 
RIP Bill.

I have serious prostate worries and experience many of the mentioned symptoms so will be thinking about an MRI very soon. I just lost my father in-law a couple of weeks ago who had similar but more advanced stage than myself and he kept an eye on his PSA levels. He actually got UTI then sepsis from a catheter after having a hip operation and then leading to organ failure, it all happened very quickly.

I am organising his funeral for next week and we miss him very much but he lived to be 86 and I want to be around for a while to enjoy my children as they grow up and become independent young adults. So it's good that we can talk openly about these things and try not to just ignore them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top