audioflyer
No going back once you heard a ceramic cartridge
Tell me more!
Best tuner ever made?
- Thread starter bhassan
- Start date
Tell me more!
Interesting to see this thread pop up again as I have a new tuner coming my way some time soon.
It was bought new by the BBC in the late 1960s and I'm told has spent the last 40 years in the Sound Archive, monitoring the output transmission quality of Radio 4. I'm not entirely sure why they no longer need it, but I'm not complaining!
Anyone care to take a guess at the tuner in question?
I'd guess at a Rogers something or other tuner
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
The existence in most second hand Hi-Fi shops of vast quantities of these that couldn't be shifted may be just a coincidence
They were almost certainly the best valved, U.K made tuner of the classic era in many ways but they do not stand comparison with modern tuners.
They are insensitive, even after the ECC88 modification as the cascode RF amp in stereo ones. The I.F bandwidth is marginal for stereo use and Leak had big issues with this at the time.
In most circumstances you will have hissy reception and usually with noticeable and unpleasant multipath distortion. The stereo version has a really naff unusable decoder so you need an external decoder to.
They can sound good if you get a very good one, in perfect alignment, have a massive and very directional aerial and live in a good reception area.... Not as good as the best modern tuners though and so much fuss and bother (plus being in the right reception are!). I have rarely heard one sound this good though..... over - hyped!
They were almost certainly the best valved, U.K made tuner of the classic era in many ways but they do not stand comparison with modern tuners.
They are insensitive, even after the ECC88 modification as the cascode RF amp in stereo ones. The I.F bandwidth is marginal for stereo use and Leak had big issues with this at the time.
In most circumstances you will have hissy reception and usually with noticeable and unpleasant multipath distortion. The stereo version has a really naff unusable decoder so you need an external decoder to.
They can sound good if you get a very good one, in perfect alignment, have a massive and very directional aerial and live in a good reception area.... Not as good as the best modern tuners though and so much fuss and bother (plus being in the right reception are!). I have rarely heard one sound this good though..... over - hyped!
Beobloke
pfm Member
The existence in most second hand Hi-Fi shops of vast quantities of these that couldn't be shifted may be just a coincidence
They were almost certainly the best valved, U.K made tuner of the classic era in many ways but they do not stand comparison with modern tuners.
They are insensitive, even after the ECC88 modification as the cascode RF amp in stereo ones. The I.F bandwidth is marginal for stereo use and Leak had big issues with this at the time.
In most circumstances you will have hissy reception and usually with noticeable and unpleasant multipath distortion. The stereo version has a really naff unusable decoder so you need an external decoder to.
They can sound good if you get a very good one, in perfect alignment, have a massive and very directional aerial and live in a good reception area.... Not as good as the best modern tuners though and so much fuss and bother (plus being in the right reception are!). I have rarely heard one sound this good though..... over - hyped!
If you check the original Hi-Fi World articles I think you'll find that it was made pretty clear that they could sound superb IF they were carefully and properly aligned, a very large aerial was used and a decent stereo decoder fitted (i.e. not the one that came in the Troughline Stereo) - all of these agree with what you've written above, so I'm not really quite sure where you're going with this.
Yes, prices went silly for a good while but the Troughline isn't the only item to suffer this. Incidentally, I have noticed prices falling dramatically recently - I struggled to give away a tatty but complete Troughline 3 for spares/repair last year.
darrlyfunk - No, not a Roberts (you silly sausage...
)Have Fun - nope, not a Rogers.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Anyone care to take a guess at the tuner in question?
Obviously it should be a Quad or a Leak but then you wouldn`t have mentioned it so............. Eagle.
Back to the OP..
I'd just like to tell everyone that I recently owned both Tandberg 3001 and 3001A at the same time....
I opened them both up..
I found that they were exactly the same. (Edit: different capacitors used on the A, the square, see-through film ones).
I sold the black 3001A
In fact, I found that my silver 3001 that was broken (only works on manual and power caps gone, creating horrible crackling sounds) sounded a fair bit better (wider soundstage, a bit tighter sounding) than the 3001A once I'd changed the PSU caps (for Vishay long life ones).
With older silver 3001s going for about £350 maximum after refurb and alignment compared to £700 for 3001As, the original has got to be an excellent bargain.
Seems that the original didn't get the press attention but the 3001A did... internet hype is often based on old reviews so if there aren't any, then people are unsure and the item doesn't get hyped up.
I'd just like to tell everyone that I recently owned both Tandberg 3001 and 3001A at the same time....
I opened them both up..
I found that they were exactly the same. (Edit: different capacitors used on the A, the square, see-through film ones).
I sold the black 3001A
In fact, I found that my silver 3001 that was broken (only works on manual and power caps gone, creating horrible crackling sounds) sounded a fair bit better (wider soundstage, a bit tighter sounding) than the 3001A once I'd changed the PSU caps (for Vishay long life ones).
With older silver 3001s going for about £350 maximum after refurb and alignment compared to £700 for 3001As, the original has got to be an excellent bargain.
Seems that the original didn't get the press attention but the 3001A did... internet hype is often based on old reviews so if there aren't any, then people are unsure and the item doesn't get hyped up.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
If you check the original Hi-Fi World articles I think you'll find that it was made pretty clear that they could sound superb IF they were carefully and properly aligned, a very large aerial was used and a decent stereo decoder fitted (i.e. not the one that came in the Troughline Stereo) - all of these agree with what you've written above, so I'm not really quite sure where you're going with this.
Yes, prices went silly for a good while but the Troughline isn't the only item to suffer this. Incidentally, I have noticed prices falling dramatically recently - I struggled to give away a tatty but complete Troughline 3 for spares/repair last year.
darrlyfunk - No, not a Roberts (you silly sausage...
Have Fun - nope, not a Rogers.
I'm not going anywhere with it as such.... Just putting to rest the untruth that the Troughline has any claim whatsoever to be best tuner in the world.
The Stereofetic which replaced it is actually pretty good by any standards and yet they go for now't 'cos they ain't valved! It's every bit as good as my Sugden R21 but neither can hold a light to my FT5500's
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Ouch. Price collapse. They'll have to go to ebay now.
337alant
Negatively Biased
Ive got a FT5500 mk1 in my garrage, just got some old wire for an ariel but it is a good tuner, never realised it was highly regarded Ill have to try it with a decent ariel. http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/6838844358/
I also have a Quad FM4 which I use all the time, a Rogers T100 and a Nad 40 somthing? all good tuners
Alan
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
Yes indeed. When reviewed by the late great Angus Mckenzie both MKI and MKII got rave reviews and were the best measuring tuners he had ever had on the test bench. Subsequent auditioning tests were passed with flying colours as well. The MKII is reckoned to be the one to have but from the samples I own I prefer the MKI on sound quality grounds. I may of course have a really good MKI and a Friday afternoon MKII for all I know!
It should beat your Quad FM4 if it's good working order.
Beobloke
pfm Member
Now that I completely agree with. A very under-rated unit and whenever you mention it, all anyone ever says is "Ooh, it's not a Troughline is it?"
Interestingly the FT-5500 is another old Hi-Fi World favourite.
And keep the ex-BBC tuner guesses coming - you're all wrong so far. I'm away now until next week, so you've got the weekend to ponder!
kasperhauser
pfm Member
Though it's almost certainly not the best tuner ever made, my current Sony ST-444ESX is the best one I've ever owned, and I'd go so far as to say the best I've ever heard. Possibly sold outside the US as the ST-700ES (I'm not certain they were exactly the same machine). fmtunerinfo has a fair bit to say about the tech side of it (1/2 way down the page), but not much in the way of listening impressions.
Thing is, I don't know why it sounds so good. But provides me with at least one "holy crap!" moment every time I listen to it, and I use it for several hours most days. Inexpensive too - I paid $30 for mine in a second-hand shop. Worth a try if you run across one.
Thing is, I don't know why it sounds so good. But provides me with at least one "holy crap!" moment every time I listen to it, and I use it for several hours most days. Inexpensive too - I paid $30 for mine in a second-hand shop. Worth a try if you run across one.
audioflyer
No going back once you heard a ceramic cartridge
The existence in most second hand Hi-Fi shops of vast quantities of these that couldn't be shifted may be just a coincidence
They were almost certainly the best valved, U.K made tuner of the classic era in many ways but they do not stand comparison with modern tuners.
They are insensitive, even after the ECC88 modification as the cascode RF amp in stereo ones. The I.F bandwidth is marginal for stereo use and Leak had big issues with this at the time.
In most circumstances you will have hissy reception and usually with noticeable and unpleasant multipath distortion. The stereo version has a really naff unusable decoder so you need an external decoder to.
They can sound good if you get a very good one, in perfect alignment, have a massive and very directional aerial and live in a good reception area.... Not as good as the best modern tuners though and so much fuss and bother (plus being in the right reception are!). I have rarely heard one sound this good though..... over - hyped!
If you are comparing sensitivity and selectivity with a modern solid state one then they don’t, I’ve tried a few tuners in the past Quad FM3, A&R T21, Hitachi FT5500, Naim 02 and 03 the only transistor one that I kept was the A&R T21.
The Leak Troughline does needs a lot of signal (4-10mV) to get the best from it and about 4-5mV to get the hiss down.
I am currently using a Quad flat panel antenna on a wall facing the Peterborough transmitter and measured a signal level of 3.8-4.5mV across Radio2 ,3 & 4.
The ECC88 modification was to allow for the realignment of the IF stage bandwidth for stereo.
I agree that the stereo version has a really naff unusable decoder so you need an external decoder, this is paramount to get it to sound good in stereo.
They do need some work to get them working again and careful alignment but well worth it.
337alant
Negatively Biased
What sort of ariel should I get I live in thhe north east inbetween bilsdale and pontop pike
I have a one in the loft which has a triagular shaped dipole with tree straight bars ?its stood vetical and not pointing in any particular direction but I do get a signal from it
Alan
I have a one in the loft which has a triagular shaped dipole with tree straight bars ?its stood vetical and not pointing in any particular direction but I do get a signal from it
Alan
audioflyer
No going back once you heard a ceramic cartridge
What sort of ariel should I get I live in thhe north east inbetween bilsdale and pontop pike
I have a one in the loft which has a triagular shaped dipole with tree straight bars ?its stood vetical and not pointing in any particular direction but I do get a signal from it
Alan
It sound like you have a three element aerial try pointing it towards Pontop Pike and align all the elements horizontally this should make a big improvement.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
As a matter of interest to some, the Troughline, when is use with an external decoder, has no valves in the signal path as such! At all times when passing through the valve electronics the signal is at radio frequency FM. It is only turned to audio when it goes through the Foster Seeley detector which features two solid state (germanium) diodes. It then goes straight to the multiplex output!
"The ECC88 modification was to allow for the realignment of the IF stage bandwidth for stereo." The theory I heard was that it was to increase sensitivity to allow a decoder to be used with the least hiss but your theory could well be correct as they are basically the same thing! If the bandwidth of the IF is increased then you will also need a greater signal strength for the same signal to noise ratio.... same difference
"The ECC88 modification was to allow for the realignment of the IF stage bandwidth for stereo." The theory I heard was that it was to increase sensitivity to allow a decoder to be used with the least hiss but your theory could well be correct as they are basically the same thing! If the bandwidth of the IF is increased then you will also need a greater signal strength for the same signal to noise ratio.... same difference