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Beethoven at the Proms

Barrymagrec

Barrymagrec

pfm Member
I suppose I`m just becoming a miserable old sod but I was quite looking forward to listening to Daniel Barenboim and his West -Eastern Divan Orchestra doing the Beethoven symphonies at the Proms on R3. So far, very mediocre in my opinion,especially after all the hype. I thought the 5th last night was quite poor so I have just played Kleiber to see if my calibration is skewed. Now I`m not even sure if it`s worth listening to the 7th, my favourite, tonight.
Or maybe it`s just me.
 
I was rather disappointed too. On another related topic, does anybody else think the female members of the orchestra were chosen for their stunning looks, with a couple of token plain ones just to deflect criticism? I saw the televised repeats of the first two concerts, and the director, or producer, or whatever he's called, had a camera permanently trained on a particular bassooniste.
 
I imagine that that was entirely down to the TV producer although as far as the choice of players is concerned remember Beecham`s objection to women players? "If they are attractive they`ll distract the other players and if they`re ugly they`ll distract me"
 
I think the programming of the Prons in recent years has been unimaginative to say the least. Too many Beethoven cycles, too many of the same old warhorses. Dare we say that since Wright took over in 2009, they've been disappointing?
 
Well, it seems to vary between boring stuff and silly musicals and film music quite a lot, which in my opinion were never in Sir Henry`s original vision. I don`t think Beethoven is boring if done well but it is done more than you would think even Beethoven warrants. I agree that they don`t seem to have improved much in recent years, except from my point of view possibly more opera but that may be a minority taste.
 
There seems to be an unwritten rule with the Proms that, along with the good stuff, we have to suffer through a certain quota of modern, even contemporary works. A bit like a penance in the Catholic Church. Surely we're all agreed that the principal attribute of any good composer is that he be dead? Do admit.
 
I think Barenboim is a capable if rather dull conductor so I'm not surprised you find his Beethoven disappointing. He's not in the same league as Toscannini, Furtwangler or Kleiber and never will be. Hype is hype.
Del
 
So, what are the best Beethoven symphony recordings? I've got a few random ones on vinyl (Fricsay, Abbado, Norrington) but would like the whole lot on CD, if there's a consistently good set.
 
ClaraBannister said:
There seems to be an unwritten rule with the Proms that, along with the good stuff, we have to suffer through a certain quota of modern, even contemporary works. A bit like a penance in the Catholic Church. Surely we're all agreed that the principal attribute of any good composer is that he be dead? Do admit.
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No. The best bit about the Proms is the chance to hear things that would not normally be performed.
 
These are my choice performances:
Kleiber- 5 and 7 -exhilarating classics,there are live performances on YouTube.
Szell- 3
Bohm- 6
Wand- 9

For full sets, the following are worth investigation:

Toscannini
Furtwangler

Krivine
Gardiner
Norrington
Harnoncourt
Zinman
Abbado

Lots of choice but all are worth listening to.
 
ClaraBannister said:
There seems to be an unwritten rule with the Proms that, along with the good stuff, we have to suffer through a certain quota of modern, even contemporary works. A bit like a penance in the Catholic Church. Surely we're all agreed that the principal attribute of any good composer is that he be dead? Do admit.
Click to expand...

Yes it`s what my late Aunt called "The inevitable first performance" and that was back in the sixties. I find I like a suprising amount of modern music but almost nothing from the Proms.
 
Joe Hutch said:
So, what are the best Beethoven symphony recordings? I've got a few random ones on vinyl (Fricsay, Abbado, Norrington) but would like the whole lot on CD, if there's a consistently good set.
Click to expand...

Apart from Kleiber who did not do a complete set (Just be gratefull for what there is) I rate Karajan 1951 very highly though slightly lacking in Fi, Karajan early sixties though I don`t have them all and the Ansermet 9th. Not bothered about John Elliot Gardner or the late Karajan, there are so many Beethoven recordings that if you listened to them all you would miss so much else.
 
I don't think the problem is Barenboim. He is working with a young orchestra from a very limited demographic. They are not the finest players but they are worth hearing. I enjoyed Five last night but cringed at the rough bassoon solo then the poor intonation of the horn that came in immediately after. I put on Chailly/ Gewandhaus immediately after and wow! Barenboim is a hero to me.
 
I've got more on vinyl than I could possibly listen to, but my top performances would have to be:

Toscanini on 7 (recorded late 30s, but surprisingly decent on RCA Camden)
Furtwangler from the '50s (I also have the 9th recorded live in 1942, but it's very definitely for historical interest. Amazing performance, dreadful quality)
Karajan (60s) and Klemperer are both very good sets; if pushed I'd pick the 6th and 3rd respectively as the highlights of the series (though that's from dubious memory)

I've also just picked up Giulini recording 8 and 9, which are promising...
 
Joe Hutch said:
So, what are the best Beethoven symphony recordings? I've got a few random ones on vinyl (Fricsay, Abbado, Norrington) but would like the whole lot on CD, if there's a consistently good set.
Click to expand...

I have the John Elliot Gardiner set. Very enjoyable played on period instruments. Well executed.

Beethoven set sounds like a hairdo my mother would have had when attending Mrs Pom-Poms down by the gasworks in the 1950's. :D
 
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