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BBC sound advice

I revisited HB2s a decade or so ago, they are truly superb speakers, in fact I felt they gave the Harbeth Compact 7s I had at the time a damn good run in most areas. The only negative is the drivers are no longer available and, at least based on the pair I had, suffer the effects of cone-sag, plus I had issues with one tweeter too. There was one bass note that would make one of the bass drivers rattle or scrape at even low volume, even after rotating it 180 degrees, which was most annoying. Were they Audax drivers? Can't remember. I wish someone would make a modern equivalent of them, they were a remarkable speaker and a really nice size and shape too.
 
Tony L said:
Were they Audax drivers? Can't remember. I wish someone would make a modern equivalent of them, they were a remarkable speaker and a really nice size and shape too.
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Yes, the woofer was one of the Audax HD17B25 models. Dunno which one, it was available in any combination of 2-layer or 4-layer voice coil, and small or large magnet. Generally, the 2-layer, small magnet version was the easiest to work with.
 
neilmack said:
I'd largely go along with Kt77. If you're happy with the LS3/5A's good points, then you will almost certainly find moving to a bigger Spendor will involve compromises in the those areas in order to gain more bass and dynamic range.

The LS3/5A benefits greatly from valve amplification, and I found that it really prospers when driven by a good push-pull EL34 amp. I had the opportunity to use one for some time with my Stirling V2s and never ceased to be amazed by the weight and authority these little speakers possessed. Look at designs from Canary, Rogue, or the quality end of Chi-fi - Eastern Electric perhaps?
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Hi neilmack,

As I've noticed from your post - you're very much into LS 3/5A's. So thanks for understanding my view. And you've made some solid recommendations on those amps as well, especially something like the Easter Electric M-520 which has been one of the best sounding Integrateds I've ever heard using EL34's.

But as a friend of my is doing a two month internship in NYC, has told me after his visit to In Living Stereo whom happens to be a dealer for Shindo Labs - Leben - DeVore Fidelity - LM Audio and Harbeth, mentioned that the owner Steve whom owns the shop has money, but his personnal speakers are a pair of Harbeth P3-ESR'S as space in NYC as most would know is at a premium per square footage. But said that while he was auditioning these P3-ESR'S in tandem with the Leben CS-600 that once he clicked the bass tone towards 3 degrees - everything just came together - sometimes we merely have to find various means to alter/voice our systems to suit our taste. In the case of bass notes - it's nothing more then placing any given speaker closer to the wall or corners which is the case with Audio Note designed speakers.

But much like tone controls it can be done through cables - cartridges and tubes that offer a much tighter emphasis on said bass notes. It's merely a matter of trail and error in said cases, but why would someone whom loves a speaker enough to purchase it to begin with - knowing its limitation, be looking at something totally different in a sense?.

And I've mentioned in countless post - I'd much rather listen to a speaker that is emotionally involving - that draws me into the music as opposed to chasing me out of my listening space because it's overbearing.

Too each his/her own. But there are time when we all have to re-think our methods of listening to our systems, are we listening to our systems?, or are we listening to the music and how it involves you?, moves you?, and take control of ones inner senses?, or are we just going through the endless motions of chasing perfection - and at what cost?.

As always, logic has to kick in at some point or another. Does it not?.
o_O scar
 
Kt77 said:
Hi regafan,

As I was searching for what would become my last pair of Mini-Monitors back in October 2009, and having taking it upon myself to email or call the designer of your beloved Stirling Broadcast V2's as as Clark Williams @ Acoustic Sounds whom is responsible for importing them into the states as i was thinking about either them of a pair of Harbeth P3-ESR's.

I was told that the LS 3/5A V2's were voiced with valve ( tube ) amps and would sound better with an ancient 1940's based tube amp that might be found used at $150, that would sound better with it then anyone's $10.000 Solid State amp - this was in fact later confirmed by Clark as well, whom went on to add that in his mind as he sells both Harbeth and Stirling Broadcast - that if a person is into solid state amps? - go with the Harbeth's, but if they were into tubes ( valves ) - then the Stirling Broadcast were the only way to go.

Now I've read reviews and have a few friends swear by using tubes with Harbeth's on a whole. But to my ears there seems to be something lacking which I'd only call a sense of opening up along with resolution which tube amps tend to roll off at some points and don't have the extension at both ends that solid state amps bring to the party if you will.

Bottom line - is that if you had a tube amp - say a Quad 11 or something with around 15-30 watts per side due to the balance and emphasis on its midband areas you wouldn't be lacking in lower end detail and/or a greater perception of their low end. Tubes if nothing else add a much weightier sound at the lower frequencies as well. As I've owned over 18 pairs of Mini-Monitors since 1982, I've yet to hear a sub that was capable of keeping up or blending in seamlessly with any of them without drawing attention to the fact one was somewhere in the room.

I'd say stick with your speakers, as LS 3/5A's more then most have a certain manner to which they render vocalists and instruments that aren't overly complex in a manner few others can or ever will. Hence their popularity in Asian Culture where they tend to want " Beauty of Notes and Texture and Tonality " above all else.

Read between the lines while staying focused - I'd say.

Regards,
o_O scar
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Great and informative post Oscar. I've wanted Stirling's for a while now for my small NY apartment, when the finances are sufficient and the wife isn't looking I'll pick a pair up.

If you don't mind my asking, what is the 1940's $150 tube amp you mention in your post? I have a Scott 299B but as it's an EL84 amp, I don't know if it has enough grunt for the LS3/5A's.

PS: I must give Clark a call, I believe I worked with him for Tower Records in the early 90's and back then he had LS3/5A's running off of a pair of McIntosh MC30's and an Audio Reseatch SP6B, what a fantastic system.
 
markb65 said:
Great and informative post Oscar. I've wanted Stirling's for a while now for my small NY apartment, when the finances are sufficient and the wife isn't looking I'll pick a pair up.

If you don't mind my asking, what is the 1940's $150 tube amp you mention in your post? I have a Scott 299B but as it's an EL84 amp, I don't know if it has enough grunt for the LS3/5A's.

PS: I must give Clark a call, I believe I worked with him for Tower Records in the early 90's and back then he had LS3/5A's running off of a pair of McIntosh MC30's and an Audio Reseatch SP6B, what a fantastic system.
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Hi markb65,

Thanks for the kind words, yet I'm only speaking on things that I've heard during my years in this hobby. I've always tired to help the younger guys that I meet in record stores out in putting together systems, once they've actually come by my place for a listening session.

Most say within 4-5 minutes that they never knew that such sounds could be had from such small speakers and are taken with the fact that I'm using vinyl and tubes. The one thing that carried over from my time in audio retail is that the consumer much be educated to understand the different levels of Fidelity and during those day we gave a lot of seminars. Well as I see it, things haven't changed - its just that they haven't been exposed to better components.

These are the Music Lovers of tomorrow, and more often then not are better suited then having better chances at getting real careers and making this a stronger market. So I tend to tell them listen with both your ears and heart - as both will tell you when something sounds correct, and buy the best you can?,as you'll only have to buy it once if chosen wisely. Yet get it right and never question their investments - because in the end whom in the right might once to go after a system all of 13 times as I've done?, as a result of listening to others opinions on the sound of your system, when in fact we've to trust in our own sensibilities enough to know in the end it comes down to " My-Fi ".

I never did ask the designer of the LS 3/5A V2's which amp he was referring to?, ask I felt that he was merely trying to emphasis the point they should be used with tubes to obtain the best sound, yet I'm inclined to things that he meant an amp using EL34's at the very least.

Clark was very helpful in telling me the truth of the matter, but I had to go with a speaker that ticked all the right buttons in my case and ending up with a pair of DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 3's. While some would say that these speakers are average at best - I beg to differ. They were in fact the first domestic made speakers to sway me away from my fondness of British Monitors that I had become accustomed to since 1982 when I first purchased a pair of Rogers LS 3/5A's instead of a pair of Maggie's.

I know full well what you mean about fitting something into your NY space, and feel that you can't go wrong with speakers that play the room as intended size wise as opposed to trying to cheap the laws of physics in trying to place big speakers into a small space.

I guess in reality that's why I've always been taken with Mini-Monitors - they do that space thing better then larger cabinets ( it's called the disappearing act ) where one can be looking straight at a small speakers drivers, yet have the images of any given artist or instrument spaced directing in the positions they were intended to during their recordings.

But try doing this last in the evening with the lights set low, and you'd swear that Sade was sitting on your lap, singing into your ears while undressing you in front of the wife.

Ops!, fantasy alert. It's time to gather myself once again.
But I'm certain that some of you will get my point of reference?, they simply
" Disappear into my Space " and I for one love the manner in which they fool me into thinking someone else is in said space performing solely for me.

Now I've to excuse myself - I've to take a cold shower before the wife finds out I'm dreaming while awake. She'll have me committed to an assistance living joint, and I'm not ready for that just yet.

Have a great weekend - markb65, and I'd say go 4 it, we only live once.

Best,
o_O scar
 
Hello, new member here,
I still have a home-made set of BBC LS3/5 units with drivers / xovers supplied by Wilmslow Audio, plus a set of Wilmslow 8" sub-woofers to round out the bottom end. For some reason they blow away modern speakers, sounding better in voice and subtle mid-range. Just using ROTEL class B amps and a CD but it makes visitors sit up. I would sure like to get hold of a Rogers tube class A to see how that sounds. Are they still made? ..I don't think so. class A seem to cost a lot. anyway, looking forward to comments on that.;).

Ive found adding deadening strips and extra acoustic wool helps out other makes of speakers, where they 'ring' or boom too much, also a wood post fitted between baffle and rear panel, screwed up tight helps a lot for flabby bass.

The LS3/5 benefit from a fresnel-type surround made from felt rings stepped up in size around the T27 tweeter, for better imaging.
 
Tony L said:
I revisited HB2s a decade or so ago, they are truly superb speakers, in fact I felt they gave the Harbeth Compact 7s I had at the time a damn good run in most areas. The only negative is the drivers are no longer available and, at least based on the pair I had, suffer the effects of cone-sag, plus I had issues with one tweeter too. There was one bass note that would make one of the bass drivers rattle or scrape at even low volume, even after rotating it 180 degrees, which was most annoying. Were they Audax drivers? Can't remember. I wish someone would make a modern equivalent of them, they were a remarkable speaker and a really nice size and shape too.
Click to expand...

Should be possible.
I'm wondering what the closest current models would be.
Perhaps Proac SC1?

Similar size and has the BBC balance sound.
 
Robert said:
Should be possible.
I'm wondering what the closest current models would be.
Perhaps Proac SC1?

Similar size and has the BBC balance sound.
Click to expand...

I think the HB2 would sit somewhere between the ProAc D1 (1SC replacement) and D2 size-wise, the 1SC was definitely a little 'un. A very good speaker indeed too, but (from memory / gut feeling rather than a direct comparison) a bit more hyped in the top than the HB2. ProAcs seem to have a slight lift around the 'breathy' area of the voice, guitar fret noise etc, about 3-6khz I guess, maybe a bit higher - the small speaker 'detail' trick. I suspect the HB2 is slightly flatter. I always remember thinking they were superbly balanced and didn't drag my attention up or down - I like a speaker where by default I 'rest' in the mid, all should obviously be there for the hearing elsewhere, but if it wilfully focusses attention up or down then other things start going wrong, e.g. I start to find rhythms dragged by the hi-hats rather than pushed by the kick drum etc. I'm not saying the 1SC does this to any great degree, it's a speaker I like a lot and would actually love to hear again one day.
 
Hi regafan,

After you've got the ball rounding on this topic, you're nowhere to be found.
Have you decided which camp you're going to go with?. As always inquiring minds want to know.

You should already know my take on this matter. I would love to know if you were able to understand what I was getting at?.

Cheers,
o_O scar
 
Hi, I haven't gone away; the topic seemed to have taken on a life of its own so happy to sit back and hear people's opinions. Thanks for your full replies by the way, I do understand what you are saying. You very much want me to stick with what I've got, and indeed what I enjoy and know a good thing when you've got it.

At the moment I'm probably going to have a go with a sub with the Ls3's and see how that goes. I do have reservations about moving them on to make way for a bigger speaker; indeed there is probably a case for keeping them as well as something larger; but you have to be careful of ending up with a living room strewn with boxes. I had 10 amps a while back so it was getting a bit silly. They've now mostly been sold on.

Hence really the thread and going back to basics, having one or two amps maybe, one or two speakers. Box swapping can take a life of its own, I was starting to find myself more interested in the quest to hear different sounds rather than enjoying the music, so decided to cut back to a simple system that just plays music for enjoyment sake.
 
regafan said:
Hi, I haven't gone away; the topic seemed to have taken on a life of its own so happy to sit back and hear people's opinions. Thanks for your full replies by the way, I do understand what you are saying. You very much want me to stick with what I've got, and indeed what I enjoy and know a good thing when you've got it.

At the moment I'm probably going to have a go with a sub with the Ls3's and see how that goes. I do have reservations about moving them on to make way for a bigger speaker; indeed there is probably a case for keeping them as well as something larger; but you have to be careful of ending up with a living room strewn with boxes. I had 10 amps a while back so it was getting a bit silly. They've now mostly been sold on.

Hence really the thread and going back to basics, having one or two amps maybe, one or two speakers. Box swapping can take a life of its own, I was starting to find myself more interested in the quest to hear different sounds rather than enjoying the music, so decided to cut back to a simple system that just plays music for enjoyment sake.
Click to expand...

Hi regafan,

There you are. You are correct it did bring out quite a few different views. But in the end the one that matters most is yours. But know that as I've mentioned earlier on in this thread - I've owned over 19 pairs of Mini-Monitors and between 1995/2005 would always have 3-5 pairs laying around as a means to use them according to taste/mood. But I came to realize after visiting a friend in Orlando in 2008, after listening very very closely to his pair of Alon Acoustics Petite's that went down to about a solid 55Hz, and though it may no sound like much......., I was very impressed with the low end from these speakers.

So in 2009, I began trying to narrow it down to 3-4 speakers that I'd love to live with - emphasis on " I ". It came down to the Spendor SA-1 - Harbeth P3-ESR - Stirling Broadcast LS 3/5A - or go after another pair of Reference 3A Dulcet's that I regretfully sold in 2007?.

Yet I came to again realize one thing that I've done all my 33 years at this - I kept buying speakers that didn't go lower then 70Hz, and I felt that if I'm going to be spending between $1.895 - $2.600 on a Mini-Monitor that I should at least be considering ones with a better low end foundation if nothing else. So I went about making the calls - exchanging emails - reading then re-reading again, before I came across the DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 3's and had a chance to audition them.

It took at of 3 minutes for me to know that I had found something that had enough bass to move me - it has weight in its mids and doesn't sound like a lunch box sized speaker - the highs are accurate with a delicate touch that's like butter - it's more then nimble or agile enough to offer lighting quick response timing as they stop and start on a dime without smearing ( which reminds me why I've always been so taken with fast Mini's like Linn Kan 2's and various versions of the ProAc Tablettes and Response One ' SC's ' along the ways ) but better resolution - more responsive to lower volume settings and more importantly - at least to my ears, they come across as ' Balanced '.

These days I'm done the opposite and now have 3 different integrated amps sitting around that I rotate through once again according to mood/music/taste - one is EL34 based, while the other has 845's and a Nait 2 for those warmer months and a EL84 based one that'll be on site next month, as I'm not in a hurry to plug in any of the tube amps as hot as it has been of late.

But all this merely to say, that I think that you've one of the very best sounding speakers in your space to date - in many ways you've to take into account where its roots lie to truthfully appreciate where it's going. Look at those Chatwell - Kef and original Harbeth LS 3/5A's are going for now days. So might misunderstand why these speakers are still in high demand - to me it's simple.

" They do Vocals " in a manner - that leaves a lot of the newer designs for dead. Once again if said listener isn't trying to take them outside of their limits then they'll do ya fine for the rest of your days - just stay away from complex passages and focus on their strengths which lie in an area that covers the most important spectrum beautifully I might add " The All Important Mintange ".

Bass is nice to have, but at what cost?, have you seriously looked a what a speaker like either those from Wilson Audio - Magico - Marten Design - Karma - Tidal Acoustics, charge for anything approaching 25Hz?. We're talking hundreds of thousands are we not?. So what make us thing that we're even close if all we've spent is less then $3.000?. If some of those ultra expensive speakers aren't capable of covering accurate - tight - nimble low end!, what chance do we have - I mean come on, let's be honest with ourselves - shall we.

But then again we've something those big money suckers are lacking in - purity - emotion - tonality - timbre - pitch of notes where it counts - a greater illusion of my beloved disappearing act. Big speakers sound big - fills the room much easier, yet lack the finer points of drawing one in emotionally.

Maybe it's just the way I listen?, but I tend to use both my ears and my heart, if something doesn't move me emotionally?, it serves no purpose in my space - my life, nor universe.

True be told - you only need a EL34 based amp!. Ask the one whom designed the speakers. They were voiced to work with them, it's that simple.
" You aren't hearing them, as intended ".

Sub or no sub, is going to enhance purity as only tube amps are more then capable of, trust me I use both solid state and tubes ( valves ) and as much as I adore the Nait2 ( my 3rd one ) it ain't tubes.

Read between the lines - and then re-read between them again. You went after those speakers for some reason?, stay focused on understanding how to listen to them - not the electronics.

As always, ramblings of an old goat - but one with good ears none the less.

Be well,
o_O scar
 
I heard some of the LS3 speakers at someones house who had quite a range of kit. I think he had at least three sets of these speakers at the time. He said he had owned about half a dozen sets of these speakers and that they all sounded a bit different.
 
I have Stirling V2's and Harbeth P3ESR's. In smaller rooms and more nearfield I prefer the V2's. Otherwise, the Harbeths.

I have never in 30 years heard what I thought was a good blend of LS3/5a's and a subwoofer. The P3ESR's, on the other hand, blend beautifully with many subs. That system - P3ESR's and a sub - is amazing.

I would look real hard at the new Stirling LS3/6.

Oh, and if you want your V2's to sound their best look into Skylan stands.

-Mike
 
Jodet said:
I have Stirling V2's and Harbeth P3ESR's. In smaller rooms and more nearfield I prefer the V2's. Otherwise, the Harbeths.

I have never in 30 years heard what I thought was a good blend of LS3/5a's and a subwoofer. The P3ESR's, on the other hand, blend beautifully with many subs. That system - P3ESR's and a sub - is amazing.

I would look real hard at the new Stirling LS3/6.

Oh, and if you want your V2's to sound their best look into Skylan stands.

-Mike
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Hi Mike,

Now that's what I'm talking about - music lovers whom actually own the speakers in question. And the part where you've emphasized that in the 30 years you've heard LS 3/5A's trying to be used with a sub - and not working is what I was trying to get at.

However, I'd be interested in knowing what type of amp you use with both of your speakers?. Just curious to see, if I'm off the mark in believing what both the designer and the guy that brings the LS 3/5A V2's have said about them preferring tubes.

There will always be options in regards to the size of this or that speaker, yet I've noticed much like me - you own Mini-Monitors, is this by choice?, or is it due to some other factor like room size?. As I've used said speakers in rooms ranging from 14' wide x 23' deep and have never heard them struggling to fill said space.

But for me, it merely comes down to what I've stated earlier - the larger the cabinet - the more I'm able to hear resonance within these speakers due to more mass, and well as the drivers being placed further apart, there seems to be a lack of integration and I begin to hear the drivers separately. Maybe it's all in my head?, but I think not.

Share your views on amps, if you'd be so kind?.

Cheers,
o_O scar
 
Hi Mike,

And I beg to differ on the stands. I think that Sound Anchors custom made speaker stands are as we say in America " The Cats Meow ". As many of my friends whom have borrowed a pair of mine to use with either speaker that you own, have gone on to replace their Syklan Stands with these instead.

Some smaller speakers unlike Epos or Linn Kan's prefer to see mass.
Just my take on said subject.

Regards,
o_O scar
 
I really admire what Harewood and Hughes did with quite ordinary ingredients. If I listen to SP1s or HLK-6s today ( ok Mr.Shaws efforts) I can hear perfectly balanced compromises resulting in something really good to listen to. The music is never traduced but it might be a little augmented by a thin walled cabinet...
With balls out technological solutions like say the WB Discoveries or some of the Ushers you pay a lot more for something that still fights against many of he same issues and I'm not sure that they are any closer to perfection. If anything you get flashes of brilliance but in the end something that just sounds like it is trying harder.
 
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