advertisement


BBC sound advice

regafan

regafan

pfm Member
Hi, after chopping and changing various amps both valve and solid state and speakers I've settled on an unserviced Quad 405 with a serviced 33. Although not a fireworks amp I find it relaxing, and good for classical lps; the bulk of my listening these days. I'm using with Stirling LS3/5a V2 which I enjoy, although wondering about improving low frequencies.

Is it better to get a bigger BBC type box or add a subwoofer?
I have thought about the following as options:

Spendor SP1
Spendor SP2
Spendor SP3/1
Spendor Sp3/1r2
Harbeth P3ESR with sub
Stick with Stirling V2 and add sub.

I listen slightly off axis due to room set up.

Thoughts appreciated.
 
I'd forgotten about that one! Add to list..
Haven't seen any reviews of it as yet. Any owners here?
 
If you really like the LS3/5a, then it's worth trying to find a pair of Rogers AB1. These turned the LS3/5a into a full-range floor-stander. I'm not a fan of the LS3/5a, but with the addition of the AB1 it made what to me was an unnacceptably flawed loudspeaker into something quite usable for more than speech.

Edit: or do it properly and go for a pair of LS5/8s!

S.
 
Given a Quad 405 and a taste for classical I'd have thought ESLs were the obvious choice here assuming sufficient space. Maybe a pair of 63s?
 
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I think Stirling do a bass expander for the V2 like the Rogers AB1 original. Haven't looked up the price but I guess this would probably take it up to the ls3/6 price they do.

I have never heard a Quad 57 or 63 although must do sometime. They seem the equivalent of valve amps- you have to give them a bit of maintenance every so often to keep them working properly. I'm trying to be more of a fit and forget person these days.
 
regafan said:
Hi, after chopping and changing various amps both valve and solid state and speakers I've settled on an unserviced Quad 405 with a serviced 33. Although not a fireworks amp I find it relaxing, and good for classical lps; the bulk of my listening these days. I'm using with Stirling LS3/5a V2 which I enjoy, although wondering about improving low frequencies.

Is it better to get a bigger BBC type box or add a subwoofer?
I have thought about the following as options:

Spendor SP1
Spendor SP2
Spendor SP3/1
Spendor Sp3/1r2
Harbeth P3ESR with sub
Stick with Stirling V2 and add sub.

I listen slightly off axis due to room set up.

Thoughts appreciated.
Click to expand...

Hi regafan,

As I was searching for what would become my last pair of Mini-Monitors back in October 2009, and having taking it upon myself to email or call the designer of your beloved Stirling Broadcast V2's as as Clark Williams @ Acoustic Sounds whom is responsible for importing them into the states as i was thinking about either them of a pair of Harbeth P3-ESR's.

I was told that the LS 3/5A V2's were voiced with valve ( tube ) amps and would sound better with an ancient 1940's based tube amp that might be found used at $150, that would sound better with it then anyone's $10.000 Solid State amp - this was in fact later confirmed by Clark as well, whom went on to add that in his mind as he sells both Harbeth and Stirling Broadcast - that if a person is into solid state amps? - go with the Harbeth's, but if they were into tubes ( valves ) - then the Stirling Broadcast were the only way to go.

Now I've read reviews and have a few friends swear by using tubes with Harbeth's on a whole. But to my ears there seems to be something lacking which I'd only call a sense of opening up along with resolution which tube amps tend to roll off at some points and don't have the extension at both ends that solid state amps bring to the party if you will.

Bottom line - is that if you had a tube amp - say a Quad 11 or something with around 15-30 watts per side due to the balance and emphasis on its midband areas you wouldn't be lacking in lower end detail and/or a greater perception of their low end. Tubes if nothing else add a much weightier sound at the lower frequencies as well. As I've owned over 18 pairs of Mini-Monitors since 1982, I've yet to hear a sub that was capable of keeping up or blending in seamlessly with any of them without drawing attention to the fact one was somewhere in the room.

I'd say stick with your speakers, as LS 3/5A's more then most have a certain manner to which they render vocalists and instruments that aren't overly complex in a manner few others can or ever will. Hence their popularity in Asian Culture where they tend to want " Beauty of Notes and Texture and Tonality " above all else.

Read between the lines while staying focused - I'd say.

Regards,
o_O scar
 
regafan said:
I have never heard a Quad 57 or 63 although must do sometime. They seem the equivalent of valve amps- you have to give them a bit of maintenance every so often to keep them working properly. I'm trying to be more of a fit and forget person these days.
Click to expand...

There's a maintenance requirement with Stats every 15-20 years or so, but it can be done and they do have an exceptionally long life-span, e.g. most 57s are well over 40 now. If they don't appeal / wouldn't be practical I'd probably go looking for the classic BC1 sized BBC box; Spendor, Rogers, Harbeth, Stirling or whatever, they are all slightly different, but beware of cone-sag / voice-coil damage with the very old ones as they are not (to my knowledge at least) replaceable / fixable without cannibalising others of that era. Unfortunately the old ones with AlNiCo magnets are considered by many to be the cream of the crop too!
 
regafan said:
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I think Stirling do a bass expander for the V2 like the Rogers AB1 original. Haven't looked up the price but I guess this would probably take it up to the ls3/6 price they do.

I have never heard a Quad 57 or 63 although must do sometime. They seem the equivalent of valve amps- you have to give them a bit of maintenance every so often to keep them working properly. I'm trying to be more of a fit and forget person these days.
Click to expand...

If you want to hear 57s, 63s and Rogers Export (basically a Rogers BC1) I have all three and you are welcome to come listen. Quad + other amps or bring your own.
I'm in NE London.

If you have transport and wanted to borrow the Rogers for a couple of weeks then that's fine too.
 
The SP1s are lovely and a reasonable second hand buy. I still like them 25 years after owning my first pair.
 
regafan said:
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I think Stirling do a bass expander for the V2 like the Rogers AB1 original. Haven't looked up the price but I guess this would probably take it up to the ls3/6 price they do.

I have never heard a Quad 57 or 63 although must do sometime. They seem the equivalent of valve amps- you have to give them a bit of maintenance every so often to keep them working properly. I'm trying to be more of a fit and forget person these days.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. I've had my ESL57s for eleven years and have done nothing to them, and they sound just as fine as they day I bought them. They had been serviced some 15+ years ago, but that's it. Not bad for a speaker that is nearly 40 yrs old.
 
I think the AB-1s have a bit of one-note bass about them.

I get the appeal of the LS3/5a trick, heck I've got a pair of kit-built Stirlings, but their dynamic limitations are such that I'd go to a bigger box if I wanted an upgrade. A 2 cu ft box with an 8", such as the BC1 or LS3/6 or Super HL5 will have worlds more scale and dynamics than the tiny shoeboxes can ever muster.
 
Yank said:
I think the AB-1s have a bit of one-note bass about them.

I get the appeal of the LS3/5a trick, heck I've got a pair of kit-built Stirlings, but their dynamic limitations are such that I'd go to a bigger box if I wanted an upgrade. A 2 cu ft box with an 8", such as the BC1 or LS3/6 or Super HL5 will have worlds more scale and dynamics than the tiny shoeboxes can ever muster.
Click to expand...

Hi Yank,

I'm in total agreement in regards to the one note bass from said AB-1's.

But as someone whom is more then capable of hearing the resonance that exist in larger cabinets due to under damped boxes. I'm also very aware of a sense of driver's lack of integration as they become larger with about 3-4" between say a tweeter - midbass driver and actual bass drivers.

There's more to life then dynamics and scale if one isn't able to listen beyond said rattlings of drivers or cabinets. There are plenty of music lovers whom are merely looking to be drawn into the musical event as opposed to being having a false sense of resolution and/or detail thrown into the mix.

I've two Asian friends with extremely deep pockets whom own either Magico or Wilson Audio Sasha or Watt MK XXI's or whatever the newer versions are at present. Yet when other friends and I go for listening sessions at either one of these guys homes - we just look at one another wondering what's all the noise about?.

I mean literally!, these speakers as we've concluded are great at pressurizing a room with the help of something like a 400 w/pc Krell power amp, yet offer very little that attracts any of us on an emotional level. But I guess that why there are so many people whom are in love with said Mini-Monitors or single ended drivers for that matter - maybe, just maybe so are willing to make compromises that are taking away from ones enjoyment of the music from a purely emotional standpoint.

Detailing - Resolution - Size are all nice tricks in themselves. But if one is into delicacy - warmth - purity of notes - greater sense of timbre - tonality and the likes and aren't bother by scale for the sake of it. Then I say vote with ones funds and take notice of where said funds have been spent over the last 23 years............, there doesn't appear to be a shortage of High Quality Mini's as one would've thought. But truth be told - it's far easier to produce a beautifully balanced and musical lunch box sized speaker, then is is to make a larger one with multiple drivers and complicated cross-overs as well as undamped cabinets as I've mentioned above.

There will never be a wrong or right way to select a speaker that works well in one room, but struggles in another. The speakers are the one component that all of us, no matter our means?, where we've to realize had to fit the room and not the other way around. So having scale - weight - bass notes down to 20Hz are beautiful things to pursue, but never at the expense of purity - bass humps and all. But much like the women we have at our sides, you might find your wife beautiful - while I on the other hand might find her to be bland and average at best or you'd feel the same about " My Queen ", but you know what - isn't that what freedom of choice is all about?.

Regards,
o_O scar
 
Thanks for the kind offer Rob, a bit far for me alas.

There seems to be 2 camps. Either get a bigger BBC box of whatever flavour, or stick with the LS3's as you will lose some of the purity when you go up.

I guess I wanted a bigger sound, more scale, lower bass without losing the LS3 'house' sound.
 
I used Stirling v2s with a Rel sub for years with great success; I think it works better than using the 'matching' stirling/rogers sub, which is a bit anemic.
From what you wrote, and as a 'fit and forget' person, V2s with a modern Rel might make you a happy man.They do match together well.
 
I'd largely go along with Kt77. If you're happy with the LS3/5A's good points, then you will almost certainly find moving to a bigger Spendor will involve compromises in the those areas in order to gain more bass and dynamic range.

The LS3/5A benefits greatly from valve amplification, and I found that it really prospers when driven by a good push-pull EL34 amp. I had the opportunity to use one for some time with my Stirling V2s and never ceased to be amazed by the weight and authority these little speakers possessed. Look at designs from Canary, Rogue, or the quality end of Chi-fi - Eastern Electric perhaps?
 
I have Rogers LS3/5As and Harbeth HLP3-ESRs which I use with Quadd SS and valve (EL34 push-pull) amps. I wouldn't describe the difference between the Rogers and Harbeths as night and day, but I prefer the Harbeths because in my room with my kit thay have a slightly cleaner sounding top end and better off-axis response. If much of your listening is off-axis they maight be worth trying. I've also found them easier to integrate with a sub.

The thing about small monitors and powered subs like the REL is that you can tailor the bass output to suit your room and taste, even more so if you use an Anti Mode with the sub (I'm a recent convert!).
 
regafan said:
Thanks for the kind offer Rob, a bit far for me alas.

There seems to be 2 camps. Either get a bigger BBC box of whatever flavour, or stick with the LS3's as you will lose some of the purity when you go up.

I guess I wanted a bigger sound, more scale, lower bass without losing the LS3 'house' sound.
Click to expand...

In that case I would simply watch the classifieds and auction sites for a clean well cared for pair of Spendor BC1, SP1, SP2 or Rogers Export, Studio 1. Look for some of the older Harbeth HL models too.

All a bit different for sure but all have the distinctive balance you are looking for.

As a real outsider, watch out for a nice pair of Heybrook HB2s - the original early 80s model. Not much bigger than the 3/5 but packs in a larger 7" bass driver and can really fill a room. BBC balanced though differently constructed. A wonderful design IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top