Ban on petrol and diesel cars from 2030

[Vinny]

Do you adopt this tone in real life?

Yes, when people keep on and on and on about irrelevances and think things like everyone lives a life as they do, and in so doing and otherwise apply precious little logic.

Nothing posted here by me has not been discussed AT length in press and in other media, including PFM, and yet people still come up with nonsense.

@Seeker_UK gets labelled Luddite purely because he does not fit the mould of the city-dweller, pootle-up-the-roader.

 

[darrenyeats]

Mild hybrids as spear-headed by Toyota are now going mainstream. In some cases introduced without fanfare like in the Golf 8 — it's simply a better way of doing an ICE (bit like when turbos went mainstream) and will be refined in time (like turbos).

The main advantage is little, or no, weight penalty. A very small battery, no starter motor or alternator is needed, Toyota also drop the turbo and can use the electric motor for torque; advanced mild hybrids can drive electric only, some of the time, up to 70mph.

Plug-in hybrid is a very different beast due to battery weight.

 

[gingermrkettle]

And you pay how much during the day compared to standard tariffs?

16p/kWh IIRC, or zero if it is charging from solar.

 

[avole]

Talking of logic, in 9 years time will the amount of traffic be the same as it is now, or will it have dropped as more people work from home, are unemployed or succumb to the next epidemic ?

Good to see you admit to your lack of originality, Vinny old chum, and I'd agree, there's a lot of it about here, there and just about everywhere. And, yes, I include myself in the list.

 

[stevec67]

If they can produce an EV or a hybrid that:

• Has a minimum range of 300 miles
• Doesn't give me 40 miles on electric and then 260 miles at 20 mpg.
• Can fully charge in the time it takes to fill up with 64 litres of DERV.
• Doesn't have the elastic band CVT.
• Doesn't drive like a boat.

Then they might be a bit more attractive.

They won't have to. What they need to do and will do is come up with a solution that suits most of the people most of the time. They will then apply punitive levels of tax to anyone who refuses to adopt it, just as they do those who insist on driving Lamborghini Fanny Magnets around central London at 5mph. If you don't like the solutions offered, that's fine. Just pay your £2k pa tax bill and £50/day city emissions charge and you can drive what you like.

 

[jtrade]

Several Tesla owners have achieved over 1,000km / 600 miles on a single charge, albeit under driving conditions to maximise range. Given that Tesla are developing denser, cheaper battery technologies, these kind of ranges will be widely available far sooner than 2030.

Anyone thinking that driving or traveling in a Tesla Model 100 or Model 3 is anything other than excellent probably hasn’t done so. Whilst Musk may not have his $25k model on the market within 2-3 years as hoped, once again it will likely be long before 2030.

If Tesla can do all this, all the other major manufacturers will have to do so as well.

The one issue with which I agree with Vinny is generation capacity, although I do not see the hydrogen alternative as the solution. If hydrogen was realistic/viable, as it once seemed, it would be far advanced by now.

 

[gingermrkettle]

Ok, I was not far off -
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/opi...lectricity-to-replace-petrol-and-diesel-cars/

So let's go for some headroom - we need to increase electricity generation by 150-200% in 10 years, note increase BY, not increase TO.

I love the idea that a letter to a local newspaper is a robust basis for national energy policy. So just to unpack the first and most obvious flaws, production is not capacity multiplied by time as usage varies and the energy content of fossil fuels is not the energy required to move the equivalent electric vehicles due to the woeful thermal efficiency of ICE.

And as the round trip losses of hydrogen production are much higher than battery charging using fuel cells rather than batteries would make things worse.

 

[ks.234]

Looks like I’ll be trying to keep my 2.2d x-type on the road for another 10 years

 

[Thorn]

Why when most houses can have the ability to charge a car would you go back to a fuel network limited by locations?

Most houses, except those lived in by the less well-off. But of course, they don't need private transport. They're well served by buses.

 

[matt j]

I'm tempted to buy 'one of the last v8 interceptors' before their value goes stratospheric.

 

[matt j]

Most houses, except those lived in by the less well-off.

Not just the less well off, but most normal people I would wager.

 

[Bob McC]

Yes, I have been one with my PHEV. Charger was set up to go from 00:30 onwards as the rate on Octopus Go drops to 5p/kWh compared to 16p otherwise.

For 4 hours only.
How long does it take to fully charge an electric car?

 

[Seeker_UK]

They won't have to. What they need to do and will do is come up with a solution that suits most of the people most of the time. They will then apply punitive levels of tax to anyone who refuses to adopt it, just as they do those who insist on driving Lamborghini Fanny Magnets around central London at 5mph. If you don't like the solutions offered, that's fine. Just pay your £2k pa tax bill and £50/day city emissions charge and you can drive what you like.

As I don't live in, or drive to, a city, that's saved me £50 already.

Seriously though, the motor industry will make EV cars closer in performance, involvement and range to current 'performance' vehicles. We know this because if they went for 'best compromise' approach, all they would sell are 1.2l euroshoppers. Now, as to what the government might do in terms of tax / duty for different types of car, who knows. Probably stick to the current model which is a flat rate plus an 'expensive car surcharge'.

But I agree that the future of IC car ownership will be for the well-off only.

 

[Bob McC]

Even if we all go 100% electric the CONGESTION charge will be going nowhere.

 

[Craig B]

I have previously posted that fuel cells/hydrogen are the future and the battery car will go the way of the fax machine.
A blip in history and in less time.

Bob,

If you haven't done so already, you may be interested in reading up on the life of the late, great Michigan, USA physicist Stanford R. Ovshinsky, a self-taught physicist/engineer, and one of my all-time heroes.

Craig

 

[Seeker_UK]

For 4 hours only.
How long does it take to fully charge an electric car?

8 hours for a 60kWh battery (eg Nissan Leaf) @ 7kW. https://pod-point.com/guides/driver...electric car (60kWh,with a 50kW rapid charger.

Domestic charging points runs at 3kW (ie 13A socket) or 7 / 22kW with a dedicated charging point. So a Nissan Leaf can take as little as 3 hours or as long as 14.

 

[gingermrkettle]

For 4 hours only.
How long does it take to fully charge an electric car?

Depends on battery capacity. A standard single phase charger as would be installed in most houses without domestic 3 phase runs at 7kW, meaning a 64kWh Kia E-Niro would take 9 hours from completely to completely full. However, how often do you need to use all of your current car's range for multiple days in a row?

 

[gingermrkettle]

7 / 22kW

22kW would be 3 phase AC, quite a few cars are limited to 11kW in that mode.

 

[Seeker_UK]

22kW would be 3 phase AC, quite a few cars are limited to 11kW in that mode.

And very few houses have three-phase.

 

[gingermrkettle]

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/historical-electricity-data

If we can live with some more actual facts, here is the overall electricity usage by year. You will see it peaked in 2003 with, per Graeme Cooper, the biggest change being from more efficient lighting.