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Ban on petrol and diesel cars from 2030

martin clark said:
Yep, the energy-density of hydrocarbons is amazing
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I am still at a loss as to why the algae derived biofuels my University was working on over a decade ago with funding from BP, Shell and the Exchequer IIRC and were sound according to their last mention in the alumni rag I saw have not yet reached market. IIRC the idea was that they could be 'cracked' as with oil refining to produce fuels which could be used in existing vehicles. For someone who has never been in a position to spend more than £4k on a car, but for whom driving is essential the absence of sensible solutions that would keep older vehicles in service longer is rather concerning on a personal level. ...and the 'embedded carbon principle' also surely means running those vehicles on a near carbon neutral fuel would actually be more environmentally sound?

As ever, I think this stuff is thought up by ****ers in London who think everyone who matters is rich enough to afford whatever, and the poors that tend to their needs can use the tube and the rest of the country and the suburban and rural poor in particular can go hang...
 
The algal-sourced stuff has been of interest 30+yrs; and there's nigh on a century of industrial chemistry experience on Fischer -Tropsch*; between them (but esp the latter, since it has enormous value and - more than than extensive use already therefore well-tested/documented engineering and outputs) we could make, say, diesel or even Jet-A1 from sea water and air if needed.

They're both significantly more expensive still, than drilling & refining crude oil - still; and not ready to substitute even small% at the immense scale humans still demand (c.90M barrels/day, even under Covid - was 100M up to late Feb). Though I believe/read some companies were pushing Fischer-Tropsch as cost competitive over about sustained $130/bbl, last time crude prices were up there. These alternatives will have a place.


*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer–Tropsch_process
 
Electric cars will have less value towards saving the planet with several problems as above .We probably not have enough electricity to charge vehicles , heat our homes , run factories etc .
Politicians are just pushing electric cars as a quick fix which has a visible outcome without proper planning
 
gingermrkettle said:
Yet again, the experts from the National Grid say that we will. Can we all stop spouting this, it is very obviously wrong.
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It isn't wrong - it's only true if we can continue to burn natural gas like it's going out of fashion, start fracking on a significant scale, or else build new nuclear power at exorbitant cost to replace gas. The NG can't store power it has to burn fuel to match demand...
 
gavreid said:
It isn't wrong - it's only true if we can continue to burn natural gas like it's going out of fashion, start fracking on a significant scale, or else build new nuclear power at exorbitant cost to replace gas. The NG can't store power it has to burn fuel to match demand...
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Or get Musk to store it for you or your money back.

(I don't know why this isn't bigger news.)

Stephen
 
gingermrkettle said:
Yet again, the experts from the National Grid say that we will. Can we all stop spouting this, it is very obviously wrong.
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We can probably find away burn enough stuff to produce enough electricity but we'll need to drive to the power station to plug in as the infrastructure won't cope.
 
stephen bennett said:
Or get Musk to store it for you or your money back.

(I don't know why this isn't bigger news.)

Stephen
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And where does the Lithium come from (see above) on a mass scale. In future there will just have to be much more acceptance of public transport - I don't know how far that future is away but beyond the next generation of electric cars I suspect...
 
gavreid said:
And where does the Lithium come from (see above) on a mass scale. In future there will just have to be much more acceptance of public transport - I don't know how far that future is away but beyond the next generation of electric cars I suspect...
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Lithium is one of the more plentiful elements, there must be environmentally sensitive methods of extraction.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Lithium is one of the more plentiful elements, there must be environmentally sensitive methods of extraction.
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There's a shortage envisioned soon - the EU has no sources currently, and it's not as abundant as you might like to think. It's mainly present in seawater.

"According to the Handbook of Lithium and Natural Calcium, "Lithium is a comparatively rare element, although it is found in many rocks and some brines, but always in very low concentrations. There are a fairly large number of both lithium mineral and brine deposits but only comparatively few of them are of actual or potential commercial value. Many are very small, others are too low in grade."[46]"


https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-...y-Shortage-Is-Set-To-Hit-Lithium-Markets.html
 
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