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Avondale DIY upgrades for Naim NAP 180 and 250

M

MJSM

Over 60 and barely alive
Hi guys,

Apologies if this has been asked previously .... and Happy New Year to everybody

I am curious about upgrading either my NAP 180 (second system in Thailand) or one of my 250s (I have a pair which I intended to run active at some point here in the UK) with either the NCC200 or NCC220 power amp modules from Avondale and have a couple of questions:

1. Can I use either of these Avondale modules in both of these amps
2. Are they essentially plug and play with the existing power supplies etc
3. Are the modifications easily reversible if I decide to sell the amps

I appreciate they would be better with additional power supply modifications but I would like to try a basic install first to see how I like them.

Thanks
Mike
 
1: Don’t know for the 180 or 250 but using the NCC200 in my 110 and they sound very very good !
2: They are plug and play in my 110, no soldering required.
3: Easily reversible in less than 1 hour again in my 110.

Some crimped connectors may have to be replaced but they usually come with the boards.

Similar results with the Witch Hat Phoenix boards as well.
 
Yes, you can pop NCC200 or NCC220 boards into either of those amps. The two modules are not the same though, so off course do them in pairs.

As for the spade connectors, more recent versions of the NCC220 (and perhaps NCC200) came with special connectors on board that could be used by either narrow or wide wire terminations, meaning it was plug and play with more Naim amps, without needing to worry about reterminating the wires.
 
Thanks gents,

Just to be sure, if I bought them and changed them myself there is no need to return my original Naim boards to Avondale (I saw that Naim modifications on the Avondale site talked about them taking your original boards in exchange).

I did see another thread where the NCC200, 220 and 300 were compared but I believe that the MB300 (is that right ?) is intended for replacing the NAP135 boards ?. I guess I am asking for a recommendation on which one to go for. I am guessing that the NC200 would be a decent upgrade for the NAP180 but would think intuitively that the NC220 would be more worthwhile option when it comes to the NAP250 upgrade.

My 250s are Olive range, not sure if that makes any difference but thought I would mention it in passing. I am driving it with an olive series 82 + Napsc and DIY Hi-cap (I have a full width Naim box with two Hi-caps inside, one original, the other uses ALW Super-regs and a Naim transformer with full wave rectifier used Naim-style). Oddly enough the Naim side is now not working (tripping my main circuit breaker ! at switch on) and has been disconnected from main power.
 
Yes the NCC220 is the better board, but the NCC200 is no slouch. Either could be used to replace the amp boards in your NAP250.

The NCC300 is twice the width. You might be able to shoehorn them into your NAP250, but that would require replacing both the NAPA amp boards, and the regulator modules. I suggest you stick with NCC2x0 for this.

BTW, you could also replace your amp's two regulator boards with Avondale HCR200 modules.

And yes, if you do it yourself, you don't need to return your boards to Avondale. I've still got my NAPA boards from my upgraded NAP110 (even though I've sold that amp on to a fellow PFM member). I used them in my FrankenAmp, but I'm going to dismantle that and sell them on.
 
The biggest difficulty I had in putting NCC220 boards into my olive NAP140 was with removing the cables from the boards. They had a shroud of stiff white plastic around the connectors. Cutting off that plastic made them easier to remove, without damaging the connectors themselves. That plastic is just cosmetic.
 
Avon said:
The biggest difficulty I had in putting NCC220 boards into my olive NAP140 was with removing the cables from the boards. They had a shroud of stiff white plastic around the connectors. Cutting off that plastic made them easier to remove, without damaging the connectors themselves. That plastic is just cosmetic.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of variation with those connectors across Naim's various amps.
 
Can NCC220 boards be used in a CB NAP140? I have a set in my 180 but often hanker after a CB system.
 
MJSM said:
I am guessing that the NC200 would be a decent upgrade for the NAP180 but would think intuitively that the NC220 would be more worthwhile option when it comes to the NAP250 upgrade
Click to expand...

I think with the prices of the 200 and 220 being so close, it would make sense to go for the 220s for your 180. I put a set in mine a couple of years ago and am very impressed with them. The original boards will only go back in if I ever decide to sell the 180.
 
Whilst we are discussing this, am I right in thinking that the 180 and 250 share the same amp board (NAPA6-4 ?) if that is true then what is so different about them and what is causing the difference. There is not much in the way of reference material to look at on this so I would be intrigued to know, not just because I cam considering the upgrade but also with regard to what I should expect afterwards.

Think I may have found some answers here actually, strange to see the opinion about the 250 being slow or too refined here though ... https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/nap-180-v-250.215635/
 
MJSM said:
Whilst we are discussing this, am I right in thinking that the 180 and 250 share the same amp board (NAPA6-4 ?) if that is true then what is so different about them and what is causing the difference. There is not much in the way of reference material to look at on this so I would be intrigued to know, not just because I cam considering the upgrade but also with regard to what I should expect afterwards.

Think I may have found some answers here actually, strange to see the opinion about the 250 being slow or too refined here though ... https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/nap-180-v-250.215635/
Click to expand...
It's primarily the power supply that changes. Also the 250 includes regulator boards, similar to Avondale's HCR200.
 
The 250's refinement comes mainly from the fact that front end is regulated by the power supply boards. A simple filter on the front end of e.g. Avondale/Witch Hat boards does much the same thing. That regulator board in the 250 won't be as fast as a raw unregulated power supply a la 140/180. So it's trade off between refinement and raw punch. Years ago on here I likened the 250 to a comfortable Mercedes and the 180 to a Fiat 500. Different experience but one can be much more fun. The NAP110 is very musical, probably because its reservoir caps are very close to the output stage of the amp boards.

The 180 and 250 boards are identical. The 140 used a feedback cap half the value. There were two variants of the 140 board, originally with Sanken transistors, then later Naim's own 001.
 
MJS said:
The 250's refinement comes mainly from the fact that front end is regulated by the power supply boards. A simple filter on the front end of e.g. Avondale/Witch Hat boards does much the same thing. That regulator board in the 250 won't be as fast as a raw unregulated power supply a la 140/180. So it's trade off between refinement and raw punch. Years ago on here I likened the 250 to a comfortable Mercedes and the 180 to a Fiat 500. Different experience but one can be much more fun. The NAP110 is very musical, probably because its reservoir caps are very close to the output stage of the amp boards.

The 180 and 250 boards are identical. The 140 used a feedback cap half the value. There were two variants of the 140 board, originally with Sanken transistors, then later Naim's own 001.
Click to expand...
Actually, I believe the NAP250's regulators power the entire NAPA amp boards, not just their front end (input stage).

You can do something similar with an Avondale HCR200 powering an entire NCC2x0. Or you can split the input and output stages, then use a separate supply for each. In this case, you use a regulated supply for the input stage, and unregulated for the output (a.k.a. Voyager).
 
MJS said:
The 250's refinement comes mainly from the fact that front end is regulated by the power supply boards. A simple filter on the front end of e.g. Avondale/Witch Hat boards does much the same thing. That regulator board in the 250 won't be as fast as a raw unregulated power supply a la 140/180. So it's trade off between refinement and raw punch. Years ago on here I likened the 250 to a comfortable Mercedes and the 180 to a Fiat 500. Different experience but one can be much more fun. The NAP110 is very musical, probably because its reservoir caps are very close to the output stage of the amp boards.

The 180 and 250 boards are identical. The 140 used a feedback cap half the value. There were two variants of the 140 board, originally with Sanken transistors, then later Naim's own 001.
Click to expand...

That's what I getting at, my 180 is standard and unserviced at present, so potentially without the power supply regulation it may be a little more 'exciting' than the 250. So I am left wondering about what to do with regard to upgrade path one the 180, my worry is that I will potentially lose that excitement if I mess around too much with the power supplies, maybe better to just replace the existing boards with NC200/220s and leave the rest as it is ? I have two 250s with less than 200 hours on since they were last serviced in around 2006 so well overdue for servicing too, and since they already have the regulation it may prove better VFM and improvement in sound to replace the regulation with some HRC200s and a Cap6 and maybe upgrade the amps with NCC220s.

I have been looking at Avondale replacement modules for years now and never had the nerve (or time and the money) to do anything about it, so I am keen to make the right decisions this time. I have the offer of some used NCC200s, HCR200s and a Cap 6 hence my thinking about where best to utilise them in my systems. Got to admit I am also seriously considering some of AA's other offerings, would love to try a Grad1 pre-amp sometime, or some of Les's passive SBL crossovers (I'm also left wondering if he can improve a NAXO 2-4) for an active option.

Lastly, you mentioned the 140 (my first ever Naim amp), what is the best upgrade for that, I'm asking because I may be in the position to help out a fellow Naim owner in Thailand (I introduced him to it over 10 years back) who has no technical savvy and has difficulty with servicing etc for his gear. If I could get the modules before I go out to Thailand this year (April) I could fit them for him and so upgrade and service all in one.


Please keep coming with the information, it's great to be able to take advantage of experience by others who have already dipped their toes in the AA pool.
 
MJSM said:
maybe better to just replace the existing boards with NC200/220s and leave the rest as it is?
Click to expand...
Correct [as the starting point]. Here’s a more explicit explanation. The NAP250 and NAP135 have a regulated supply to both the front and the back ends, because both are fed by the same supply. Regulating the FRONT end brings refinement. Regulating the BACK end reduces excitement I’m told.

The NCC200/220 boards have built-in smoothing to the front end, which isolates it from the back end. That brings refinement, though perhaps not as much as using regulation. The NAP180, NAP140, NAP110 etc. have unregulated supplies. So here, you get both refinement (because of that extra smoothing / isolation) and excitement (because of the lack of regulation). To take things further, you could of course add regulation to the front end of the NCC200/220 boards, at a later time. That will not reduce the excitement factor.
 
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MJS said:
The 250's refinement comes mainly from the fact that front end is regulated by the power supply boards. A simple filter on the front end of e.g. Avondale/Witch Hat boards does much the same thing. That regulator board in the 250 won't be as fast as a raw unregulated power supply a la 140/180. So it's trade off between refinement and raw punch. Years ago on here I likened the 250 to a comfortable Mercedes and the 180 to a Fiat 500. Different experience but one can be much more fun. The NAP110 is very musical, probably because its reservoir caps are very close to the output stage of the amp boards.

The 180 and 250 boards are identical. The 140 used a feedback cap half the value. There were two variants of the 140 board, originally with Sanken transistors, then later Naim's own 001.
Click to expand...
Raw punch : is it a drink ? :eek::D
No matter what, that’s exactly my cup of tea and I am well served with my Avondaled NAP 110.
 
MJSM said:
That's what I getting at, my 180 is standard and unserviced at present, so potentially without the power supply regulation it may be a little more 'exciting' than the 250. So I am left wondering about what to do with regard to upgrade path one the 180, my worry is that I will potentially lose that excitement if I mess around too much with the power supplies, maybe better to just replace the existing boards with NC200/220s and leave the rest as it is ? I have two 250s with less than 200 hours on since they were last serviced in around 2006 so well overdue for servicing too, and since they already have the regulation it may prove better VFM and improvement in sound to replace the regulation with some HRC200s and a Cap6 and maybe upgrade the amps with NCC220s.

I have been looking at Avondale replacement modules for years now and never had the nerve (or time and the money) to do anything about it, so I am keen to make the right decisions this time. I have the offer of some used NCC200s, HCR200s and a Cap 6 hence my thinking about where best to utilise them in my systems. Got to admit I am also seriously considering some of AA's other offerings, would love to try a Grad1 pre-amp sometime, or some of Les's passive SBL crossovers (I'm also left wondering if he can improve a NAXO 2-4) for an active option.

Lastly, you mentioned the 140 (my first ever Naim amp), what is the best upgrade for that, I'm asking because I may be in the position to help out a fellow Naim owner in Thailand (I introduced him to it over 10 years back) who has no technical savvy and has difficulty with servicing etc for his gear. If I could get the modules before I go out to Thailand this year (April) I could fit them for him and so upgrade and service all in one.


Please keep coming with the information, it's great to be able to take advantage of experience by others who have already dipped their toes in the AA pool.
Click to expand...
If this can help, I replaced the boards in my NAP 110 with some Witch Hat Phoenix boards and left all the rest original with very good results. Kept all the Naim's PRaT and boogie factor.
The Avondale boards being very similar to the Phoenix, I would say yes, you should keep your 180 all original and replace the two boards only, you won’t regret.
 
Sounds like a plan then, I have been reading up on the AA Facebook channel, well worth a read too. I seems that I can upgrade just the boards for now then, but I have a question about the comment regarding "add regulation to the front end of the NCC200/220 boards, at a later time", I have seen two options here, both of which appear to replace the original wedge-shaped regulation board, one with dual Minicaps and one with a pair of HCR200 boards, are these what you mean ? .

I'm guessing that I should be asking some of these questions to AA direct but I am a bit loathe to bother Les with trivia for now.
 
Adding front-end regulation "later" isn't typically an option, as you need a second transformer and Cap6 module, and usually means you're building mono amps or have a very large case. It doesn't apply if you're upgrading Naim boxes.
 
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