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AV processor to beat stereo pre

Neil P

Neil P

pfm Member
All through my AV/hifi journey I've flicked between devoted stereo & AV systems (linked for front channels) and a totally combined system.

Has anyone found an AV processor/receiver which is great with stereo too? What kind of stereo preamps was it equalling or even beating?

It must have hdmi inputs and I'd be using separate power amps if needed.
 
I've long been a both camps sort of guy. I use a Marantz NR-1510, which powers the rears in my 4.0 system, while I use the AVRs pre-outs to get the front left and right speakers powered by my Teddy Pardo i80s, which has AV Bypass. The AVR isn't so great with analogue inputs so I use my TP amp to handle that (my analogue sources are turntable and analogue from my stereo DAC). If you've got the space you can just use a good stereo amp with AV Bypass and not worry too much about getting a quality AVR as heavy lifting will be done by your stereo amp in all cases. Fwiw, one of the reasons I don't use a centre speaker is because having the centre powered by my AVR while left and right are powered by my stereo amp would, it seems to me, sound a bit naff considering the difference in quality between amp and AVR.
 
I'm a big fan of legacy top end processors which can be had for peanuts nowadays, although admittedly they won't have the HDMI you require. Tag McLaren AV32R was superb, but the Myryad MDP500 is another level altogether: I doubt I'll be letting this one go anytime soon. I run a 2.1 system and these processors provide me with the bass management I require together with excellent pre functionality and stellar DACs built in.

I had an Anthem MRX receiver to try out their ARC room correction (which was very good) and these do have HDMI. I ultimately had to add separate power amps and a decent DAC, but the preamp functionality was very good indeed and there was absolutely no issues with stereo performance when being a pure pre. That's not to say the power section or dac were rubbish, but the pre section (and room correction) was definitely the star of the show.
 
Up to now the only Pre Proc I have been 100% happy with for both duties was a Meridian 568.2MM but obvs it has no HDMI inputs or object based decoders, there is a Meridian HDMI unit you can add. Depends on your budget, the Anthem AVM70 would be the one I’d demo/read up on, if your budget stretches then the bigger 90 has better DACs and then you’re into Lyngdorf and Trinnov territory. Beware as this Gen of AV kit is bug ridden across the board and nobody seems to have cracked the new HDMI standards or features.

I run them totally separate at present with the AV system as 2nd fiddle, HiFi is much more important to me these days, it was not always so.
 
Can't say I've ever made a direct comparison, but you'll find most of the high-quality A/V processors will make a fair fist of plain stereo are remarkably good value. Lots of second-hand bargains to be had, and the ones with room correction built-in can be very handy. I've owned Tag McClaren, Meridian, various Denons, Anthem, and now an Arcam AVR30, all of which have been perfectly fine on the very rare occasion when playing stereo through them. In my second system I use a cheapy Denon AVR-X2400H, which is mainly for stereo, using its preamp feed to my DIY Avondale dual-mono Voyager amp. I even use the DAC inside it to decode the feed from my Macbook, & it's a really good sound.
 
+1 for the Meridian 568.2mm. Price is typically £500-£750. Make sure you get the .2mm version for compatiblity with the HDMI sources (see below).

Alternatively there is the Meridian G68 range (some models include 5.1 analogue inputs) but beware the state of the power supply. Price is typically £650-£1300 depending on version and whether the power supply has been repaired and/or upgraded.

Both devices digitise all sources so you will not get analogue purity (if that is your thing) but they are very good at what they do. The 568 is possibly warmer while the G68 is possibly more clinical but those differences might be down to room, setup, your choice of power amplier, etc.

Just add a Meridian HD621 (or UHD722) to either device to get access to sound from HDMI sources but note that these processors are limited to 5.1 on the inputs. Both will synthesise 7.1 for output.
 
One thing to note is the old processors generally don’t support Atmos/Height speakers, some have DSP modes that can use heights as presence speakers, it’s why I moved to newer gear, even streaming services now pump out Atmos.
 
I have never heard, auditioned, nor experienced any AVR or AV preamp that could actually match the audio performance of a quality build 2-channel integrated amp or separate 2-channel pre & power amp system.

The closest I’ve witnessed is the very top end ARCAM unit. But still not a true peer in my experience. And because it is very VERY expensive that depreciates quickly and is no L-T investment, choose wisely IMO.

Hence, that is why I operate my “A” 2-channel system as a separate and discrete system system apart from my 7.1 HT system. The latter could be classified as a “high(er) end” HT system with a a discrete high-end AV 7.1 all-digital pre-amp processor ( the “disposable” as CODECs change), that is driven by three high-end YBA power amps (2/3/2) . It sounds fine ( pleasing?) for multi-channel HT movies and selective HT multi-channel audio , but it is still not a contender for 2-channel audio performance when compared to my “A” system.

FWIW…. my experience….
 
A key differentiator between a purist analogue stereo pre-amplifier and an AV pre-processor is that most AV processors digitise their inputs so the sound quality of analogue sources (LP, radio, etc.) is ultimately beholden to the A2D quality. Add to that, most AV sources in the past have been limited to data-reduced codecs (DTS DD/AC3) rather then the better LPCM codecs used by Bluray and some of the quality streaming services. So comparisons are not really possible unless the source (e.g. Bluray player) is set to 2-channel (losing, in the process, what the sound designer wanted to achieve in terms of envelopment, impact, etc.) and connected to the pursit stereo preamplifier via analogue outputs. One might equally say that the better purist stereo preamplifiers fail to deliver what a good AV processor can given an AV-oriented source because they ignore so much of the source information.

Yes separate solutions are probably best for absolute performance, each in their specialist domains, but good AV processors are a reasonable compromise where there is room for only one system, especially if the two-channel sources are CD or streaming.

Perhaps a better approach is using a preamplifier with an unattenuated input so it can pass through from an AV processor while staying purist in the stereo analogue domain.
 
To the OP: I use a Bryston SP3 which I would say is the nicest sounding pre-amp I have owned. It has stereo digital by-pass (i.e. true analog only chain) if you need it, plus can handle the older multichannel formats - those prior to 3D / object-based formats. These are pretty rare on eBay, but they are not cheap and it may be possible to pick a used one for approx £3k.

I have previously owned Krell 300i, Creek 4040, Rotel something AV amp, Bryston SP1.7, Emotiva UMC1, Ada Suite7.1HD
 
Neil P said:
All through my AV/hifi journey I've flicked between devoted stereo & AV systems (linked for front channels) and a totally combined system.

Has anyone found an AV processor/receiver which is great with stereo too? What kind of stereo preamps was it equalling or even beating?

It must have hdmi inputs and I'd be using separate power amps if needed.
Click to expand...

Second the Meridian options. I’ve used the 568.2MM, 861v4 and am currently using a G65. I switched from the 861 to G65 for space reasons as the 800 series is a large box. Only rub with these is the limited audio codec support in today’s world and the need to have the HD621 or 722 for HDMI audio extraction as already highlighted. Also to note - 861v4 and G series (except G65) typically start life with a less than reliable switch mode PSU, it can be upgraded to the LPS option, something to watch out for as when it goes it can wipe out the unit at great cost vs typical SH sale values.

Are they better or worse than my previous 2ch pres? I don’t know to be honest. Probably better but I can’t put into words as it’s been ages since using an analogue only pre, plus this year I made a switch to DSPs (5 with 2 analogue subs) so I am really now locked to Meridian.

My music listening is via 2ch up mixing these days so the Meridian options offer something that many other pres don’t (Trifield, Music, PLII Music processing). Plus I have the system set up as a sub and satellite configuration…I realise I am going in a different direction to many here - but for my needs for how a listen 2 ch music my AV pre is critical so I have no plans to go back to just a L & R option.
 
I had an AV setup in our previous house. After doing a lot of research I decided to use an Oppo Blue bluray play as the multi channel processor sending analogue output to a Parasound P7 multi channel analogue preamp. As far as I know it is the only multi channel analogue preamp on the market. The main channels were sent to the AV passthrough of my Devialet amp, and surround channels were handled by a massive Parasound power amp.

In our current house I don’t have the space to set up a full multi channel system so I just use two channels for AV.
The Parasound is boxed up in a the spare room, just in case we move again. There is an ad languishing in the classifieds, I might still be tempted to part with it.
 
I have endeavoured to beat analogue out and a legacy Processor, used only as a multichannel Pre. I have failed, I owned an Acurus ACT4 for 6m before selling on and going back to a naim AV2. HDMI is really problematic for decent audio. Unless you explore Trinnov, and even then I am not sure. I only EQ subs and not surround channels. I also run the AV2 with a naim 32.5/supercap for L,R (this is in channel for the AV set up and actually sounds better kept in place for AV)

I may try a Trinnov at home at some point but with 13 mono amps to wire up and cables / connectors to make before trying I am not super keen. Personally I only think EQ is really valid with subs. My spacial imaging is excellent with good stand mounted speakers carefully positioned
 
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