Del monaco
Del Monaco
Plain language doesn’t quite describe the feelings we share for music and sound. That’s why I like it when someone tries to use different words to communicate their passion. It’s not necessarily pompous.
Audiophile pomposity/verbosity
- Thread starter berty bass
- Start date
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
As an occasional record reviewer, I feel for those that have to review audio equipment as, unlike records, most of it sounds exactly the bloody same. Coming up with new ways of saying the same thing over and over again must be both dispiriting and difficult.
tuga
Legal Alien
Musicians have terms to describe qualities of sound and music, as do audio engineers and producers.
I don’t mind what terms are chosen so long as they mean the same thing to everyone.
I don't read reviews or listening reports.
Stereophile created a glossary of audio terms that I find useful:
This chart is by mastering engineer Bob Katz:
I don’t mind what terms are chosen so long as they mean the same thing to everyone.
I don't read reviews or listening reports.
Stereophile created a glossary of audio terms that I find useful:
This chart is by mastering engineer Bob Katz:
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
Amen to that!
So many reviewers mention several comparable items that they have recently had across their rack, then fail to directly compare their performance with the item under evaluation.
Just sloppy - or revenue focused - reviewing, IMHO.
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That virtually proves that the new product is somewhat surplus to requirements which as we all know is the case. Every Hifi manufacturer could be burnt down to the ground and we still would be able to carry on playing because we lot are slowly dying off with only a handful to replace us. It's a case of over supply of the same old same old.
tuga
Legal Alien
You cannot use random words to describe sonic attributes, there needs to be a common lexicon of audio terms that is know by all.
Otherwise it's as if people are talking in different languages and each individual has no clue of what the others are referring to.
S-Man
StrivingON
If I was a reviewer I would be very tempted to use random words, then I wouldn't be culpable for being wrong
.
tuga
Legal Alien
If I was a reviewer I would be very tempted to use random words, then I wouldn't be culpable for being wrong
If, as most reviewers, you were describing a listening experience then you would not be wrong since your comments would be taste-driven.
But because most reviews are preference reports I find that there's little worth in reading them, so I don't.
Reviews have other problems such as myth-making and generating bias on the reader (and let's not talk about cables).
Tony L
Administrator
Audio reviewing, like music or art reviewing, is as much about learning the reviewers taste and perspective and how well that maps to your own. It is all just language.
I don’t follow the audio press these days. I had a Stereophile subscription, but that was mainly for Art Dudley, Sam Tellig etc, but they are mostly long gone, so I eventually cancelled it. These two make my point well (Herb Reichart & Ken Micallef too). I’d read enough over enough years to understand I was pretty much on the same page as these reviewers, but very different from say Michael Fremer. Once this connection is established reviews or column journeys can have real use in helping identify products from all eras for further investigation. It is the point I’ve found reviews useful beyond relaying basic factual information such as mass, compliance, loading, impedance, sensitivity etc. The bottom line is some reviewers are worth listening to, most aren’t, but which are which will be a very personal thing relating to what exactly you are trying to achieve.
tuga
Legal Alien
I read Art Dudley in the past and he was a good writer but in my view not particularly good at communicating.
Fremer is a pompous ass with a Trump-like attitude that I don't find funny. (like other reviewers, e.g. Lavorgna, sucess has gotten to him in a nasty way)
This cult of reviewers as 'gods' gets to me.
I think that this magazine-reading culture is damaging to our hobby.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Well, reviewers are not using random words. They may be using words which are not part of your approved lexicon, but they are not using them randomly. And the words are part of the native language of the writer, so why can they not use them on the assumption that their meaning will be grasped by all other native speakers with a vocabulary bigger than a 10 year old? A series of reviews which only used words from a (fairly short) list of defined terms, would be a very dull series of reviews indeed, and it would quickly become impossible to determine the actual differences between products in any meaningful way.
Let's say you have two loudspeakers which both sound dull and slow, especially in the bass. If the only applicable words in the lexicon are dull, and slow, how do you explain which one is duller, or slower than which? Or do you leave your reader to assume they both sound identical?
Tony L
Administrator
I don’t agree, but I suspect really understanding what he was getting at was never a fast reveal as it was a journey through many years of monthly columns. A lifelong exploration more akin to an ongoing blog. That’s the thing I’ve tried to learn from Art Dudley and apply to some degree in my own writing here. None of the stuff I remember from him were ‘hi-fi reviews’ in any conventional sense, it was more the way he always gravitated back towards much loved vintage idler decks, Altec horns, very specific valve amps, cartridges etc, and what he had to say about them. He also seemed almost entirely disconnected from ‘the new’ and was as far away from the usual ‘DAC of the month’ or whatever over-hyped high-tech BS is being touted that week. I respected that a lot as I view audio as a full 70+ year timeline, not what some salesman is desperate to sell me today.
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
Back in the 1990s - when I used to eagerly wait for the next Stereophile instalment - I purchased a lot of their RECORD OF THE MONTH albums on vinyl.
I can honestly say that they are still some of the best - best recorded - and most played albums I own. And I own a bunch.
That said, their CLASSICAL music tastes rarely matched my own.
Music - like all art - is such a highly subjective thing.
It's a real wonder that we can agree on as much as we do!
I can honestly say that they are still some of the best - best recorded - and most played albums I own. And I own a bunch.
That said, their CLASSICAL music tastes rarely matched my own.
Music - like all art - is such a highly subjective thing.
It's a real wonder that we can agree on as much as we do!
gez
pfm Member
I've spent the last decade as a project manager. One of the most important things I've learned over that time is that the use of a word can result in two people having totally diffferent expectations of what the expected end result should be. i.e. it should never be taken for granted that the person you're communicating with has the same understanding of the meaning of the words you used, that you do.
tuga
Legal Alien
Like I said I think that he was a good writer and I can understand the allure of reading about a journey more than just random equipment tasting sessions, although he did make a few of those as well (he seems to have been one of the appointed Wilson Audio reviewers, even though such speakers didn't seem to match his preference). And if his preference for sound and music matches the readers' then reading him is even more compelling.
But I don't find much useful information in his writing as a buyer. And his listening room was an acoustic nightmare.
tuga
Legal Alien
Ha, but audio equipment reviewers don't deal with complex ideas.
The complex part of the review, describing the tech, is usually a photoshopped/flowery copy-paste of the manufacturer's marketing blabber. And when they do try to delve deeper into what makes an equipment tic they usually fail miserably.
I would agree that communicating music listening experiences is difficult but I find that describing audio equipment performance with music is a terrible idea.
gez
pfm Member
Which more or less aligns with what the video posted was saying, yet that video was immediately jumped on as spouting BS.Musicians have terms to describe qualities of sound and music, as do audio engineers and producers.
I don’t mind what terms are chosen so long as they mean the same thing to everyone.
I don't read reviews or listening reports.
Stereophile created a glossary of audio terms that I find useful:
This chart is by mastering engineer Bob Katz:
I think it's a matter of audience, as you say. That's where the disconnect lays. The audio engineer/muso industry has their own set of vocabulary that is understood to mean specific qualities to a sound etc. Audiophiles use their own, and it's interpretation is not the same despite the fact that often some of the words used are the same.