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Audio Note DAC 4 or 5. Just how good R they?

And on the other side, you have PQ’s version of events (which AFAIK is what the courts upheld, not that I’m any authority).

There’s a bit of a digest of PQ’s responses, with links, written by someone I believe was a friend of his at the time here.

FWIW I found myself curious when I first heard about the schism, but swiftly concluded there was more heat than light involved, and it was better to judge both companies on their other merits than to try to untangle it all.
 
Musicraft said:
I'm looking forward to getting my hands on PrimaLuna's EVO 100 vacuum tube DAC :)
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Having recently got one of their Dialogue Premium amps, I’d be very curious to compare one of those with the ones mentioned here if I were buying a DAC now. The amp is excellent IMO.
 
In the present climate, I would have thought the last thing people should be doing is buying anything from China...

There is plenty of good Hi-Fi available from UK and EU audio companies, as well as from Japan and the US.
 
G T Audio said:
In the present climate, I would have thought the last thing people should be doing is buying anything from China...

There is plenty of good Hi-Fi available from UK and EU audio companies, as well as from Japan and the US.
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It could be difficult to avoid buying 'anything' from China as so much is made there and perhaps difficult for some people to afford products with similar facilities made outside China, but I'd agree if I was going to spend a fair bit on a Hifi (electronics) product I'd prefer if it was manufactured in the UK, perhaps Europe or Japan for cartridges, tonearms or speakers. I'm not so sure we should be buying from the US either considering the Barbie brained bafoon sitting in the Whitehouse and the intuitionalised racism in the establishment of the US
 
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Quite right. We have our own high quality homegrown institutionalised racism in this country thank you very much. No need for any of that over-hyped American nonsense.
 
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G T Audio said:
In the present climate, I would have thought the last thing people should be doing is buying anything from China...

There is plenty of good Hi-Fi available from UK and EU audio companies, as well as from Japan and the US.
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Legitimate concern, even if it comes across as a bit judgy and aimed at me.

I thought I was buying a Dutch product from a Scottish retailer, at least partially stuffed with French parts. All of which is true, albeit I didn't know at the time that it's also true that it was assembled in China.
 
Dave***t said:
Legitimate concern, even if it comes across as a bit judgy and aimed at me.

I thought I was buying a Dutch product from a Scottish retailer, at least partially stuffed with French parts. All of which is true, albeit I didn't know at the time that it's also true that it was assembled in China.
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It is difficult sometimes to track down exactly who makes what where. Some companies are simply a lot more transparent about where exactly things are made – or their ownership for that matter – than others.

Personally I think it's worth making the effort.
 
Dave***t said:
Legitimate concern, even if it comes across as a bit judgy and aimed at me.

I thought I was buying a Dutch product from a Scottish retailer, at least partially stuffed with French parts. All of which is true, albeit I didn't know at the time that it's also true that it was assembled in China.
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Easily done, sadly. Last time I went shopping for a suit, the salesman invited me to consider Armani.

I explained it wasn't for me, I prefer my Italian tailoring to actually be done in Italy.

"All Armani tailoring is made in Italy" he said. I don't think he was being deceitful, just ill-informed. He didn't say anything after I suggested he look closely at the small label in the inside pocket which proclaimed "Made in Bulgaria."
 
notevenclose said:
Easily done, sadly. Last time I went shopping for a suit, the salesman invited me to consider Armani.

I explained it wasn't for me, I prefer my Italian tailoring to actually be done in Italy.

"All Armani tailoring is made in Italy" he said. I don't think he was being deceitful, just ill-informed. He didn't say anything after I suggested he look closely at the small label in the inside pocket which proclaimed "Made in Bulgaria."
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At least it was made in Europe. The west must break this reliance on China for manufacturing.
 
G T Audio said:
At least it was made in Europe.
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Yup. But Bulgaria... ;-)

Actually, I'm not against outsourcing per se. (China in my view is an exception). But it needs to be done transparently and all too often it's not. But if I know where it's made I can make an informed decision, and in truth it does have an effect, for me, on the perceived value and maximum I'm willing to pay.

For me a company like Sunspel do it right, they manufacture in the UK, but outsource some production to Italy and Portugal. Interestingly it's not always the cheaper items being made in Portugal as you might expect. But most importantly (to me) every item on the Sunspel website, right down to a pair of socks, details the country of manufacture.

I'm fine with that, Portugal has established a very high quality textiles industry based on small specialist manufacturers (frequently family-owned) in recent years and I'm reasonably confident my product is being made by an adult earning a decent wage in relative terms.

For me that's preferable to the 300 year old Saville Row tailors actually owned by a Hong Kong Equity fund with most of the tailoring done in Mauritius. Not much mention of that in their heritage guff.

The labels/brands which I don't have much respect for seem, shall we say, reluctant to provide that transparency.

A mate of mine bought a Hegel amp last year and was a bit taken aback by my admittedly partly 'wind-up' dismissal of it as 'Chinese shite.'

He was genuinely surprised to discover I wasn't making that up. There is as far as I can see, no mention of manufacturing origin either on the product nor their website, not even in the corporate bumph. He's a political journalist, so not exactly incapable of a bit of digging should he put his mind to it.

Primare pull the same trick, doubtless there are countless others where I don't know the back story, but I'd be sure I did before I spent any money.
 
notevenclose said:
For me that's preferable to the 300 year old Saville Row tailors actually owned by a Hong Kong Equity fund with most of the tailoring done in Mauritius.
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I get your point but I am not sure there are any established Savile Row tailors owned by HK Equity Funds? I am sure any Equity Funding company would look for a more profitable way to make money than in Savile Row tailoring...

The Chinese are very cute. Take Luxman for example, who are Chinese owned, but the electronics are still made in the Japanese factory. They know if people find out its made in China the market for it will be significantly less.
 
I think it’s very far fetched to think people will stop buying from China.

whether they know it or not.

China has come a long way and will continue to lead in manufacturing. Hifi brands need to do whatever they can to survive and not only that but profit from their business. I for one have no problem with how a manufacturer produces its products. As long as they are of a high standard and reliable.

The only issue is, I think this is a relatively difficult thing to achieve when outsourcing manufacture. Less quality control.
 
G T Audio said:
I get your point but I am not sure there are any established Savile Row tailors owned by HK Equity Funds? I am sure any Equity Funding company would look for a more profitable way to make money than in Savile Row tailoring...

The Chinese are very cute. Take Luxman for example, who are Chinese owned, but the electronics are still made in the Japanese factory. They know if people find out its made in China the market for it will be significantly less.
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Okay, 200 year old. but Gieves & Hawkes, 1 Saville Row. Owned by Trinity Ltd.

Wikipedia: Trinity Limited is a Hong Kong-based investment holding company principally engaged in the retailing and wholesales of menswear. Its businesses include the retailing and wholesales of premium menswear and the licensing of brands. Its brands include Kent Curwen, Gieves Hawkes, Cerruti 1881 and D'URBAN.
 
G T Audio said:
The Chinese are very cute. Take Luxman for example, who are Chinese owned, but the electronics are still made in the Japanese factory. They know if people find out its made in China the market for it will be significantly less.
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Yes. IIRC, they tried Chinese manufacture on some of the Luxman kit and found it bit them in the arse. Turns out the Japanese like their 'Japanese' products to be built in Japan as well.
 
xtinct1 said:
I think it’s very far fetched to think people will stop buying from China.
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Some have (wherever possible). Some will (wherever possible). Some don't know/care one way or another.

As I've said earlier in this and other threads, it's all very much a matter for personal choice.
 
notevenclose said:
Okay, 200 year old. but Gieves & Hawkes, 1 Saville Row. Owned by Trinity Ltd.

Wikipedia: Trinity Limited is a Hong Kong-based investment holding company principally engaged in the retailing and wholesales of menswear. Its businesses include the retailing and wholesales of premium menswear and the licensing of brands. Its brands include Kent Curwen, Gieves Hawkes, Cerruti 1881 and D'URBAN.
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Gieves and Hawkes are not known as a traditional Bespoke Savile Row tailoring business. They mostly sell made to measure garments as indicated by the pricing. However, they do offer a made to measure service but I bet this is small beer compared to their off the peg business model.
 
G T Audio said:
Gieves and Hawkes are not known as a traditional Bespoke Savile Row tailoring business. They mostly sell made to measure garments as indicated by the pricing. However, they do offer a made to measure service but I bet this is small beer compared to their off the peg business model.
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Rather splitting hairs, no?

What's the difference then between Trinity and IAG?

Would you spend 5 grand on a Luxman amp? Personally, I wouldn't, not under current ownership.
 
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