Audial Model S DAC
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Guest432
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Looks interesting but I've never heard of them.
I'm a big fan of NOS r2r DACs and to me they sound the most analogue of anything I've tried.
Personally I view the psu to be one of the most importand parts of a DAC and I've got a Border Patrol (seriously great power supplies) DAC at the moment which sounds very good.
http://www.borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm
Might be worth a look if you are after a NOS r2r DAC.
I'm a big fan of NOS r2r DACs and to me they sound the most analogue of anything I've tried.
Personally I view the psu to be one of the most importand parts of a DAC and I've got a Border Patrol (seriously great power supplies) DAC at the moment which sounds very good.
http://www.borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm
Might be worth a look if you are after a NOS r2r DAC.
Julf
Facts are our friends
What does "sound analog" mean? In the case of r2r DAC's, I assume it means non-linearity?
Some early/primitive/badly designed DACs are really sensitive to power supplies, more modern designs less so.
G
Guest432
Guest
If you don't know what analogue sounds like I suggest you do some more listening to music.
A DAC has an analogue output stage and this is can be badly impacted by a poor power supply or improved by a very good one.
It's nice to hear someone speaking about this DAC. If you are in the North West I would be happy to come and demo my unit.
I've owned one for years, I have the MK1 version with Output Transformers. Compared to other DACs these things stand out to me: 3D soundstage, incredibly natural tone & timbre, instrument separation (feeling of 'hanging in space') and beautiful dynamic contrast. In other words, some of the positive traits associated with vinyl or R2R are there, without the negatives. To these ears other DACs sound harder, flatter and more fatiguing, or are too 'smoothed over'.
Pedja Rogic is one of those rare people who can back up his subjective experiences with a traditional, measurements-based approach to audio engineering. His AYA DAC was incredibly well-received in DIY circles, and the Model S has been largely unchanged since its release as his 'statement' of what can be done with the TDA1541A. It is a *notoriously* difficult DAC to work with, and get right, when you look inside the Model S, it's pretty much all power supply...
You can read my review here: http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/429/audial-model-dac
The Border Patrol looks interesting, am also a fan of the NOS R2R style of DAC, but it'll be limited by the TDA1543 it is using, so I wouldn't expect the refinement or micro dynamics of the Audial DAC - bet I'd still enjoy it though. I've owned an Audiosector NOS DAC too, which was nice, but didn't have the dynamics or refinement at the top end like the Audial does.
IMHO the Audial Model S is one of the best DACs that can be found at any price. It flies below the radar though, like a lot of my kit does...
Julf
Facts are our friends
I do know what music sounds like. I don't know what the difference between "analogue" and "non-analogue" sounds like - it is the same music and the same sound wave, if done correctly.
Just like any analog stage, yes, but there are pretty good (and cheap) ways to stabilize, regulate and filter a power supply these days.
@ Yomanze
Thank you very much for your write up.
I have read your review and found it very interesting. I have been going back and forth not sure if the Audial S is worth to buy.
Just wondering if you can recommend a good CD transport for the Audial S?
You wrote in your article that you have compared this DAC with the Naim 555.
What do you think are the differences between Audial S and Naim CD555? What transport did you use with the Audial model S?
Many thanks and looking forward to reading your reply
Thank you very much for your write up.
I have read your review and found it very interesting. I have been going back and forth not sure if the Audial S is worth to buy.
Just wondering if you can recommend a good CD transport for the Audial S?
You wrote in your article that you have compared this DAC with the Naim 555.
What do you think are the differences between Audial S and Naim CD555? What transport did you use with the Audial model S?
Many thanks and looking forward to reading your reply
It all depends on what you want really. If you are after that last little bit of shimmering detail on cymbals and violin and the ultimate in high treble resolution, then you have three options, you either buy an oversampling DAC, 2nd is to use DSP and a computer front-end to feed an oversampled signal straight into a non-oversampling DAC. This is to correct the 3db drop in frequency response at 20khz that NOS DACs like the Audial Model S have. I tested using all sorts of oversampling filters, and in the end went back to non-oversampling as it sounded more natural. I agree with Pedja Rogic's comments that the Model S is designed for 'long-term listening enjoyment', not sonic fireworks.
The third option is to use a sinc filter on a NOS dac to 'correct' the droop, but it's a filter with an audible penalty (loss of natural tone) and defeats the point of running a 'filterless' DAC.
The NOS treble rolloff is very slight, and does not get in the way (sins of omission), but it *is* audible. However, the positive tradeoffs are a better midrange and better 'harmonic integrity' (harmonics hanging in space rather than getting blurred together) i.e. after spending so long with non-oversampling DACs it is clear that digital filtering has its own signature, a slight 'smoothing' or 'blurring' or the sound and flattening of the soundstage, less dynamic contrast, more 'digital weirdness'.
All things equal, I think a vinyl or R2R lover, who is resistant to using DACs, might prefer what a NOS DAC offers.
The Audial Model S is rare in that it has true 75 Ohm SPDIF inputs, so BNC cables are needed, it sounds best to these ears when using a quality USB to SPDIF interface like the BNC version of the Halide Bridge. The DAC doesn't use 'buffering and reclocking' arrangements, not a problem if you use a low jitter transport. I use a Pioneer DV-717 when I'm spinning CDs, but sure you could do better here even if it does punch above its weight.
Finally, there's a lot of crap CD masterings out there, which no DAC or CD player can rescue, it's just something to deal with and accept.
The third option is to use a sinc filter on a NOS dac to 'correct' the droop, but it's a filter with an audible penalty (loss of natural tone) and defeats the point of running a 'filterless' DAC.
The NOS treble rolloff is very slight, and does not get in the way (sins of omission), but it *is* audible. However, the positive tradeoffs are a better midrange and better 'harmonic integrity' (harmonics hanging in space rather than getting blurred together) i.e. after spending so long with non-oversampling DACs it is clear that digital filtering has its own signature, a slight 'smoothing' or 'blurring' or the sound and flattening of the soundstage, less dynamic contrast, more 'digital weirdness'.
All things equal, I think a vinyl or R2R lover, who is resistant to using DACs, might prefer what a NOS DAC offers.
The Audial Model S is rare in that it has true 75 Ohm SPDIF inputs, so BNC cables are needed, it sounds best to these ears when using a quality USB to SPDIF interface like the BNC version of the Halide Bridge. The DAC doesn't use 'buffering and reclocking' arrangements, not a problem if you use a low jitter transport. I use a Pioneer DV-717 when I'm spinning CDs, but sure you could do better here even if it does punch above its weight.
Finally, there's a lot of crap CD masterings out there, which no DAC or CD player can rescue, it's just something to deal with and accept.
Hi, yes, I've tried it with multiple transports including Pioneer PD-S505, Rotel 965BX, which were 'smoothies', (and various Philips swingarms), and a horrible, bright-sounding Little Dot CD transport that took ages to read discs, as well as the DV-717's little brother, the DV-505, which I liked very much. As mentioned, my best results have been with a Halide Bridge, which has an incredibly low level of jitter and clock drift, a lot less than CD transports.
...if I was to invest more in a CD transport & do it justice (I do use my USB interface a lot more), I'd go for something like an OPPO BDP-83, which is so good some 'ahem' other manufacturers decided to put in a fancy case (with no circuit changes) and charge 10x more. There are also good opportunities to get this unit professionally re-clocked.
Without a doubt the TDA1541A implementation is far better in the Audial Model S compared to your Naim CDS3, so if you like the TDA1541A sound, then you'd love the Audial Model S. Some things that stand out compared to your unit:
* Much better power supply (built-in balanced mains, individual transformer windings and zero feedback power supplies for each chip pin)
* More sophisticated grounding techniques (very important with the TDA1541A)
* DEM Reclocking - a way to improve focus and tighten up the bass on the TDA1541A, very rarely implemented
* Much better output stage using zero feedback, so less 'haze' and 'grain' compared to standard op-amp output stages (like your Naim has)
Are you near Manchester? I am confident that the Audial Model S will beat any Naim CD player, as well as Audio Note DACs, but these things in the end come down to taste, of course some people like to own 'big brands' or keep high resale value -
I'm in it for the music.
It's nice to hear someone speaking about this DAC. If you are in the North West I would be happy to come and demo my unit.
I've owned one for years, I have the MK1 version with Output Transformers. Compared to other DACs these things stand out to me: 3D soundstage, incredibly natural tone & timbre, instrument separation (feeling of 'hanging in space') and beautiful dynamic contrast. In other words, some of the positive traits associated with vinyl or R2R are there, without the negatives. To these ears other DACs sound harder, flatter and more fatiguing, or are too 'smoothed over'.
Pedja Rogic is one of those rare people who can back up his subjective experiences with a traditional, measurements-based approach to audio engineering. His AYA DAC was incredibly well-received in DIY circles, and the Model S has been largely unchanged since its release as his 'statement' of what can be done with the TDA1541A. It is a *notoriously* difficult DAC to work with, and get right, when you look inside the Model S, it's pretty much all power supply...
You can read my review here: http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/429/audial-model-dac
The Border Patrol looks interesting, am also a fan of the NOS R2R style of DAC, but it'll be limited by the TDA1543 it is using, so I wouldn't expect the refinement or micro dynamics of the Audial DAC - bet I'd still enjoy it though. I've owned an Audiosector NOS DAC too, which was nice, but didn't have the dynamics or refinement at the top end like the Audial does.
IMHO the Audial Model S is one of the best DACs that can be found at any price. It flies below the radar though, like a lot of my kit does...
Apologies for reviving this old thread. I’ve only recently got in to streaming and the use of standalone DACs. Although impressive , I do find that the two ones I have , although both different , still sound “digital” , so I’m intrigued to try something NOS
I’m more interested in something that sounds good than absolute measurements but I’m loath to fork out on something like this without listening. Are there any dealers in the U.K. ? Ditto re Border Patrol
Buy a used Densen CDP and use as a DAC. It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg and should be resellable at no loss if you don't like it.
I play records 90++++% of the time and my B-410 sounds fine to me when it is used. Analogue is Delos/Hadcock/Hyperspace/head amp. Pre is a Croft, power are Avondales.
I play records 90++++% of the time and my B-410 sounds fine to me when it is used. Analogue is Delos/Hadcock/Hyperspace/head amp. Pre is a Croft, power are Avondales.
Sorry, such talk is as good as Dutch to me. Have a browse of the spec's online.
They also make pre's with a DAC too, but they may not do what you want.
Audial gear is sold direct, so no UK dealers I’m afraid. The measurements are also good...
I didn’t feel like I was taking a risk when I bought one. You could look out for an AYA DAC for a lower risk (lower price) option.
The new S5 has just been released, with a lot more input flexibility than mine.
What is the rest of your system?
Audial gear is sold direct, so no UK dealers I’m afraid. The measurements are also good...
I didn’t feel like I was taking a risk when I bought one. You could look out for an AYA DAC for a lower risk (lower price) option.
The new S5 has just been released, with a lot more input flexibility than mine.
What is the rest of your system?
Hi, thanks for that . Dynavector Amp Shahinian speakers so very revealing . I’ve got two DACs , the Teddy Pardo which is impressive and dynamic but can sound a little hard: and the internal DAC of a Densen B440xs , which is more Analogue sounding but ultimately still sounds like a DAC
Pkay
pfm Member
Looking at reviving a very old thread. This Dac has caught my interest recently and I was wondering how people are finding it.
One of the comments on the website is that you cant leave this dac on 24/7 which is my usual mode with Dacs (and in my previous Naim life). Having a Sugden I am getting used to switching off my gear after listenting.
Have people had any reliability issues and how do users find the musicality compared to other modern chips?
One of the comments on the website is that you cant leave this dac on 24/7 which is my usual mode with Dacs (and in my previous Naim life). Having a Sugden I am getting used to switching off my gear after listenting.
Have people had any reliability issues and how do users find the musicality compared to other modern chips?
IMO the TDA 1541 is one of the most musical chips around and I've tried pretty well all the chips in NOS mode-AD 1865, AD1862, PCM 63 and 1794. As stated Pedja Rogic backs up all his designs and developments with research and his DACs are very reliable. The Mk 5 has USB input which is a big plus, and also works up to 192khz (not that there's many recordings around) which is more than I've managed with my 1541 DACs!
I’ve been running my Audial Model S since June 2012, so over 11 1/2 years, and it’s still working flawlessly.
The reason it’s recommended to turn the unit off when not in use is that the TDA1541A is a hungry, hot-running chip. It is socketed in the Audial units and I do have a few spares squirrelled away, but I haven’t had to use any.
The reason it’s recommended to turn the unit off when not in use is that the TDA1541A is a hungry, hot-running chip. It is socketed in the Audial units and I do have a few spares squirrelled away, but I haven’t had to use any.