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AT-VM95ML on a grace g707?

Aussie Geoff

Aussie Geoff

Well-Known Member
Quick question . Would this cart work with such a light weight arm as the Grace.
I realise that there are FAR FAR better arms but i am forced to work with my owned since new early LP12 with the Grace arm .
If there is a cart that would work better and be in a similar price range feel free to suggest.
Thanks.
 
AT's compliance figures can be a bit cryptic to decipher but i think the 95ML is at around the 18cu mark (at 10Hz).

G707 having an eff. mass of 7g and weight of the cartridge with fastener being 7-8g will give you a system resonance at about 10Hz which isn't too shabby.

That's the numbers which won't necessarily translate to success in real life but I don't see why it shouldn't work just fine.

Alternatively something like a vintage Shure V15 with a new Jico SAS stylus.
 
There are numerous examples of combinations that shouldn't work but did: G707 + Supex 900, SME3009 + Denon 103D, etc, etc. I think the AT will work just fine in the 707.
 
I had G-707 on a wood trimmed Rega 2 for a while in the early '80s; came with a Grado FT+1 fitted from new (1.5g VTF for '+1' vs 1.5 - 3g for '+' only) which worked fine. Substituting F9E was a big upgrade; as well it should have been given its lovely nude elliptical on svelte cantilever vs. the Grado's big crude spherical on plumbers pipe. Anyway, the point being, classic Grado have the same static compliance spec as does the current AT-VM95 series, specifically 20cu. IIRC, the Grace was 25cu static, so not too far off, regardless what transformation constant one uses for dynamic compliance at 10Hz vs 100Hz.

P.S. I also recall auditioning an LP12/G-707 with 'yellow' Basik on (aka AT93, same as AT95E but with spherical tip) when the latter came out, and it tracked and sounded really good, at least up until the going got tough at near end of record side. Even then, it was obviously tracing distortion rather than outright mis-tracking.
 
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I forgot to mention that the current and original cart is a Garrott bros P77 which is sounding off. I suspect after all these years the suspension would be compromised.I don't think its stylus wear as this is the second stylus and the system was in mothballs for many years and only resurrected this year.Thanks for the replies. Looks like i will give the AT-VM95ML a try. It seems to be really good value for money. Cheaper than a new stylus for the Garrott



Early Lp12 ( silver bearing with white liner, Valhala), grace707 , Blusound node 2i , SMSL M9 Dac , Naim 12s , Naim nap160 , Kef R3 (pre, power , valhala all recapped etc this year.)
 
Aussie Geoff said:
I forgot to mention that the current and original cart is a Garrott bros P77 which is sounding off. I suspect after all these years the suspension would be compromised.I don't think its stylus wear as this is the second stylus and the system was in mothballs for many years and only resurrected this year.Thanks for the replies. Looks like i will give the AT-VM95ML a try. It seems to be really good value for money. Cheaper than a new stylus for the Garrott



Early Lp12 ( silver bearing with white liner, Valhala), grace707 , Blusound node 2i , SMSL M9 Dac , Naim 12s , Naim nap160 , Kef R3 (pre, power , valhala all recapped etc this year.)
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Have you given the stylus of the P77 a good cleaning, and/or had a look at it through a loupe? It sounding off may not be down to the suspension. If it had been put away dirty, for example, whatever crud was present would have had ample time to petrify. I've had some pretty stubborn plaque removal jobs to do over the years.
 
Another thing that comes to mind is that the NA322 MM boards present a rather high input capacitance of circa 470pF on their own. Add to this the combined capacitance of the G-707 internal and external wiring and many MM cartridges can go somewhat OTT with a HF resonant peak that is well within the audible range. Depending upon the rest of the system, room, personal taste, hearing acuity, etc., this may or may not present as a problem, however, it is something to consider when choosing cartridges.

Your A&R Cambridge based Garrott P77 isn't too fussy, as it is rated to be compatible with a capacitive loading range of 200 to 400pF. A-T MMs, on the other hand, have a flatter response when they are loaded with 100 to 200pF. They can get quite peaky when loaded with 575pF or more (assuming circa 100pF in the tonearm leads).
 
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Here's another very competent option. Put a Jico SAS stylus on your old Garrott. It seems the Jico Stylus 1 (originally for the Jico MM-1 cartridge) fits the Garrott. You get a boron cantilever and Super Analogue Stylus - which is essentially the same as a Micro Ridge/Line. I don't know if the Garrott in principle is a moving iron type cartridge but if it is insensitive to capacitive loading it might be the better bet (as mentioned).

https://www.thakker.eu/tonnadeln/jico-d-70-sas-nadel-fuer-philips-gp-400-iii-serie/a-9634

https://www.google.com/search?clien...hUKEwiegdryl-btAhXCyqQKHTx-CDcQ4dUDCAw&uact=5
 
How much weight can the Grace balance out? If plenty you could of course use a headshell weight to get things bang in. Alternatively do AT still do the upper level metal body like the AT150MLX? If so that would buy a bit of mass.

As an alternative Ortofons are pretty high compliance, I’d have thought a 540/II or OM40, both of which can still be found with a bit of looking and are cheaper than a 2M Black, should be a very good match indeed. The 540/II certainly worked superbly in a fixed shell 3009 Improved (6.5g) here.
 
Yes, both of those Ortofon models are ideal on compliance grounds and both are quite tolerant of higher capacitive loads too.

I'm not sure where you'd find either of these models new these days, though. Should someone donate either a 500 series, or an OM series body, there'd still be the €350 cost of Stylus 540 MkII or Stylus 40 (direct from Ortofon).

Not sure if either of the above would necessarily be more than double the price good, relative to AT-VM95ML at £149.99.
 
I agree, if you can load the AT correctly it is likely a great option. What about considering the AT VM740ML, it’s £100 dearer, has the upgraded metal body which assume everything else is the same should get your mass/compliance bang in range.

I remember borrowing a AT 150MLX from Rob ages ago and hearing real potential with it, though it was an obvious mismatch with my phono stage (at the time a DV P100) and just sounded bright and thin if amazingly detailed and clean tracking right to end of side. I suspect with the correct loading and capacitance I’d have liked that a lot. I don’t like lean/bright cartridges, which all to often ATs turn out to be due to their extreme capacitance requirements, so I’d certainly make sure you are in range there (and obviously count about 100pF for the arm lead).
 
Tony L said:
I agree, if you can load the AT correctly it is likely a great option. What about considering the AT VM740ML, it’s £100 dearer, has the upgraded metal body which assume everything else is the same should get your mass/compliance bang in range.

I remember borrowing a AT 150MLX from Rob ages ago and hearing real potential with it, though it was an obvious mismatch with my phono stage (at the time a DV P100) and just sounded bright and thin if amazingly detailed and clean tracking right to end of side. I suspect with the correct loading and capacitance I’d have liked that a lot. I don’t like lean/bright cartridges, which all to often ATs turn out to be due to their extreme capacitance requirements, so I’d certainly make sure you are in range there (and obviously count about 100pF for the arm lead).
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I still have it safely stashed, only about 100 hours on it max. That was a real tour de force in tech with its tapered boron cantilever and vapour deposited gold damping layer. Bit fussy on record pressing quality and compliance is a bit higher than current VMs but superb with low cap loading.
 
Took a long time to answer because i was on leave until the 4th . Thank you to all for all the great info and advice. So my options seem to be a Jico sas1 on my old p77 or a completely new cart ie AT VM 95ML, $ 270 and $300 respectively. I really don't have the finances to go above this price range. So i will study up a bit more and weigh the pros and cons of each in this arm and with the MM cards that are in the 12s.
 
Personally find the ML quite boring in comparison to the NE, E and C which seem more musically coherent, although the ML does the hifi stuff best, esp absense of inner groove distortion. And to my ears, none convey the music as well as an unworn K9. We are all different though and what makes me tick might not work for you. Perhaps the more expensive ATs will offer you the sound and musical engagement.

I have another LP12 with Adikt which I really enjoy but not directly compared to the other carts. The Adikt might be out of budget too. I was wary of using an Adikt for a long time but will likely get one fitted to my Valhalla/Ittok deck once the K9 is dead.

Nice system btw. I use 12/BD160 as well - great combo. Would like an LP12 like yours but not many around these days.
 
Hi Geoff, if you eventually go with the AT, perhaps take a look at the RSL MM phono cards for the NAC12 (assuming it is not a really early 12 with the different board connectors). They have a lower capacitance than the Naim MM hence lilely to be rather less peaky sounding. Or perhaps go AT VM95C and new RSLboards and update the stylus to the ML when funds become available?
 
krenzler said:
Charlie: Herb Reichert agrees with you:

https://www.stereophile.com/content...io-technica-goldring-lp-gear-phono-cartridges

Geoff: Where in Australia do you find the Jico styli (or is it direct from Japan)?
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Thanks krenzler - not seen that before. Yeah, they get musically worse to my ears the more you spend. The C is my favourite overall but the E seems to carry the tune a bit better. And the C has quite obvious IGD on my old deck. I recall Mr Pig enjoying the C on his RP10 so perhaps this isn't an issue on a more modern deck. If it wasn't for the IGD then I would just use a C and not being thinking of an Adikt.
 
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