No, I always love this debate... please explain further
Asked for new tyres, was sold defective ones - advice please
- Thread starter Jimin
- Start date
Jubal
pfm Member
Figure of speech. I am sure a calm chat will also sort it. Get down there if you asked for new. It’s blindingly obvious if tyres aren’t new, no shine, no little sticky up bits etc. You‘d know at a glance, or post a picture here?Yeah weirdly I had the urge to go offline for a bit. I'm weird, I do that sometimes.
I asked for a price on new tyres, they quoted 57 each. It's an '06 Civic, which I'll be replacing soon, so I didn't want or expect top of the range.
The invoice reads Kpatos tyres, 91v.
I hate cars, and anything to do with them, which is why I drive a Civic. My mechanic who is a nice chap recommended this garage. I just wanted what I paid for. I didn't get that so I'll go and see them now.
I opened a thread because I wanted to know about my consumer rights, so I know what to say when I speak to them. I'm not a 'banging on the counter' kind of person.
Cheers!
I love cars and I drive a Civic tooYeah weirdly I had the urge to go offline for a bit. I'm weird, I do that sometimes.
I asked for a price on new tyres, they quoted 57 each. It's an '06 Civic, which I'll be replacing soon, so I didn't want or expect top of the range.
The invoice reads Kpatos tyres, 91v.
I hate cars, and anything to do with them, which is why I drive a Civic. My mechanic who is a nice chap recommended this garage. I just wanted what I paid for. I didn't get that so I'll go and see them now.
I opened a thread because I wanted to know about my consumer rights, so I know what to say when I speak to them. I'm not a 'banging on the counter' kind of person.
Cheers!
Anyway, as above, you're covered under the Consumer Rights Act, open and shut case. If the tyre place gets arsey with you speak to Citizen's Advice, they are really good in situations like this.
Well it seems like the error was with the MOT garage who wrote the front tyres were worn when it was the rears. I pointed out that the fronts weren’t shiny and new looking and they showed me others off the shelf that were the same.
I feel a bit silly but the error is with the MOT inspector eh.
I feel a bit silly but the error is with the MOT inspector eh.
Beobloke
pfm Member
Current thinking amongst many garages (and the tyre manufacturers apparently) is to put new tyres onto the rear of the car. Its all to do with making sure the rear of the car has grip under hard braking when the weight shifts to the front.No, I always love this debate... please explain further
As an aside, I’m very jealous of the OP’s tyre bill. My new fronts are being fitted this afternoon and costing me £259 each….
Current thinking amongst many garages (and the tyre manufacturers apparently) is to put new tyres onto the rear of the car. Its all to do with making sure the rear of the car has grip under hard braking when the weight shifts to the front.
As an aside, I’m very jealous of the OP’s tyre bill. My new fronts are being fitted this afternoon and costing me £259 each….
Bangernomics all the way for me. I don't have the comfort or speed I'm sure you enjoy
Yes, I know the science around understeer and oversteer due to more rear grip and front grip respectively and it makes complete sense to me given that most drivers haven't a clue as to how to handle oversteer and will just hit the brakes even harder, but I love debating it with those that don't agree
If the car was a Porsche Boxster I'd forgive them for not being able to distinguish the front from the rear, but on a Civic it's quite obvious
SteveG
pfm Member
Now that the MOT issue has been sorted out are we going to move onto a discussion about fitting ditchfinders?
Also on the front v rear thing there might have been a reason to put the new tyres on the front if they were ditchfinders and the rears were something decent (if part worn). Or more likely the fitter didn't think the client would care considering they'd gone for ditchfinders.
Also on the front v rear thing there might have been a reason to put the new tyres on the front if they were ditchfinders and the rears were something decent (if part worn). Or more likely the fitter didn't think the client would care considering they'd gone for ditchfinders.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
is that all?
Tumeni Notes
pfm Member
I have to ask ... why didn't you get the MoT testing garage to fit the tyres for you?
Was the tyre fitter a Quick Fyt type of place?
Was the tyre fitter a Quick Fyt type of place?
Cav
pfm Member
I have never come across this "advice" which, in the context of a fwd vehicle, makes no sense.Current thinking amongst many garages (and the tyre manufacturers apparently) is to put new tyres onto the rear of the car. Its all to do with making sure the rear of the car has grip under hard braking when the weight shifts to the front.
As an aside, I’m very jealous of the OP’s tyre bill. My new fronts are being fitted this afternoon and costing me £259 each….
florette69
pfm Member
Colin L
High-tech low-life
Apart from the case of a powerful RWD drive car, for any other vehicle I'd put the best on the front. Reason being understeer can catch out an unwary driver in poor conditions anytime and under braking you want the best grip. To lose the back of the car at any time suggests to me you've been driving like a knobhead.
I know you will find many many people arguing to contrary, but from a purely engineering and safety perspective the best tyres should be on the rear.
The reason is simply this .... let's say you're turning into a bend and you push the car beyond the limits of tyre adhesion (due to too much speed, less grippy road surface due to moisture or even ice or whatever). As the car starts to lose grip it is the fronts that will give up first causing, all other things being equal, understeer where the car tries to go straight on . 99% of drivers when they feel a car losing grip will stand on the brakes (it's not what you should do in all circumstances, but it's a natural reaction), this transfers weight to the front of the vehicle and extra force means extra grip and the car will experience less understeer and turn back into the bend.
Now repeat that with the better tyres on the front. In this case the rears will lose grip first and the car will start to experience oversteer (where the rear tries to come round), standing on the brakes will transfer weight to the front i.e. to the more grippy tyres and take weight off the rear where the tyres are already losing grip and this will result in an uncontrolled spin as the front grips harder and rear loses grip altogether.
This has nothing to do with the driven wheels, it's just pure physics. It also doesn't apply to those who know how to handle cars that are understeering, oversteering through use of the steering and throttle, but it does apply to 99% of drivers on the road who will simply panic and hit the brakes in those sort of situations.
The reason is simply this .... let's say you're turning into a bend and you push the car beyond the limits of tyre adhesion (due to too much speed, less grippy road surface due to moisture or even ice or whatever). As the car starts to lose grip it is the fronts that will give up first causing, all other things being equal, understeer where the car tries to go straight on . 99% of drivers when they feel a car losing grip will stand on the brakes (it's not what you should do in all circumstances, but it's a natural reaction), this transfers weight to the front of the vehicle and extra force means extra grip and the car will experience less understeer and turn back into the bend.
Now repeat that with the better tyres on the front. In this case the rears will lose grip first and the car will start to experience oversteer (where the rear tries to come round), standing on the brakes will transfer weight to the front i.e. to the more grippy tyres and take weight off the rear where the tyres are already losing grip and this will result in an uncontrolled spin as the front grips harder and rear loses grip altogether.
This has nothing to do with the driven wheels, it's just pure physics. It also doesn't apply to those who know how to handle cars that are understeering, oversteering through use of the steering and throttle, but it does apply to 99% of drivers on the road who will simply panic and hit the brakes in those sort of situations.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Everyone:
Nobody is recommending keeping worn out tyres on the car, so the understeer/oversteer discussion is largely irrelevant.
The big advantage for most drivers of front wheel drive cars is that usually the tyres at the back of the car have an easier life. If you fit new tyres to the rear, they’ll wear slowly under light loads. Then, when moved to the front when the fronts have worn, these now part-worn tyres (probably still at 5mm tread depth) will be better suited to taking the loads of being on the front. This is because the tread blocks don’t move around so much under braking/accelerating/cornering.The tyre just lasts much longer.
Nobody is recommending keeping worn out tyres on the car, so the understeer/oversteer discussion is largely irrelevant.
The big advantage for most drivers of front wheel drive cars is that usually the tyres at the back of the car have an easier life. If you fit new tyres to the rear, they’ll wear slowly under light loads. Then, when moved to the front when the fronts have worn, these now part-worn tyres (probably still at 5mm tread depth) will be better suited to taking the loads of being on the front. This is because the tread blocks don’t move around so much under braking/accelerating/cornering.The tyre just lasts much longer.
OK, £57 each is a low price for new tyres, but you can get cheap and crappy new tyres for that sort of money in popular sizes. For that price you have a right to expect new tyres, safely fittted, albeit crappy cheap ones. If you paid for balancing, you will get that too. The invoice will tell you what you paid for. No need to bash the counter, just go back with car, tyres and invoice and ask for an explanation. New tyres, even crap ones, are obviously new and look like it for a couple of weeks at least. You customer rights are the same as for anything else. If you buy a new shirt and when you get it home it's pretty well worn out and just been fished out of my laundry basket, you are entitled to a new replacement or your money back.Yeah weirdly I had the urge to go offline for a bit. I'm weird, I do that sometimes.
I asked for a price on new tyres, they quoted 57 each. It's an '06 Civic, which I'll be replacing soon, so I didn't want or expect top of the range.
The invoice reads Kpatos tyres, 91v.
I hate cars, and anything to do with them, which is why I drive a Civic. My mechanic who is a nice chap recommended this garage. I just wanted what I paid for. I didn't get that so I'll go and see them now.
I opened a thread because I wanted to know about my consumer rights, so I know what to say when I speak to them. I'm not a 'banging on the counter' kind of person.
Cheers!