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Army morale and national service possibilities

Putting all the ideology to one side for a second, would NS improve the military?
When has it ever? Unless it's for a significant duration (such as 2 years or so) and they get given the same training as signed up professionals, then what could they possibly actually add of benefit to any military engagement, except to act as cannon fodder that is. (which by the way, I've heard a lot of people - some in the forces - state that is exacty what would happen to the TA should the UK ever get involved in a true full out war).
 
well i looked after a wonderful 92 year old , he loved to tell me of the wonderful 2 years he spent in the RAF on National service and all his adventures . it gave him a real start and guide in life . I tried to get a family member into the army to give him skills for life but sadly it never happened . i think it gives huge strides in discipline and direction
That's all well and good. But there's literally nothing the armed forces can achieve in that way that a suitable civilian organisation couldn't. Plenty of other ways to give the young discipline etc. I mean when the forces aren't actually fighting what are they doing exactly that couldn't be learned elsewhere (I mean apart from how to shoot weapons of various kinds, drive tanks etc obviously)?
 
How do you mean?
Well from what I see online and around me, many people under 25 are very self absorbed and narcisistic. I'm not saying there aren't politically etc engaged young people, obviously there are, but I feel many are disolusioned and/or self centred.

Anecdotal I know, but I recall watching a TV program once where they took 3 (could have been 4) unemployed 18 something year olds and got them to work (it was only for one or two weeks) in various jobs. One was a waiter in an Indian restaurant and another was an asparagus picker (can't recall what the other two did), and literally the whole program was them wining and complaining about how hard and difficult the work was and how they'd rather be back home laying on their beds on their phones. The asparagus guy, just stopped going after two or three days and even the guy working as a waiter in the restaurant was skiving off after a couple of days.
 
Well from what I see online and around me, many people under 25 are very self absorbed and narcisistic. I'm not saying there aren't politically etc engaged young people, obviously there are, but I feel many are disolusioned and/or self centred.

Anecdotal I know, but I recall watching a TV program once where they took 3 (could have been 4) unemployed 18 something year olds and got them to work (it was only for one or two weeks) in various jobs. One was a waiter in an Indian restaurant and another was an asparagus picker (can't recall what the other two did), and literally the whole program was them wining and complaining about how hard and difficult the work was and how they'd rather be back home laying on their beds on their phones. The asparagus guy, just stopped going after two or three days and even the guy working as a waiter in the restaurant was skiving off after a couple of days.

Don't blame them. Asparagus picking sounds shite.
 
The asparagus guy, just stopped going after two or three days and even the guy working as a waiter in the restaurant was skiving off after a couple of days.
Out of interest have you ever picked asparagus for a living? The farm down the road from us have grown it for a few years and they tell us that it's back breaking work harvesting it.

I think it's not just teenagers who are living in bubbles.
 
Don't blame them. Asparagus picking sounds shite.
Well obviously, but the progam was about why we have (had at the time at least) such a large immigrant (migratory even) workforce in the lower paid "starter" jobs. Clearly it's because British youth see it as beneath them despite the fact that some ridiculous percentage come out of mandatory schooling with pretty much no qualifications and then expect to get a better job than stacking shelves at Tesco's.

NB the program was about 15 years ago and I fully accept that things are different now.

My father was an immigrant to this country, he took kitchen washing up jobs initially, moving on to working for Fords and Lyons etc before finally getting lucky and getting himself a job in a bank (as he was pretty fluent in English by then and languages were in demand). Nearly every other person he knew in the community of immigrants all had similar jobs, and all eventually did better.
 
Out of interest have you ever picked asparagus for a living? The farm down the road from us have grown it for a few years and they tell us that it's back breaking work harvesting it.

I think it's not just teenagers who are living in bubbles.
I am fully aware it's back breaking work. So what? it needs to be done. The point is us Brits think that kind of work is beneath us even when we don't have the smarts or education to do anything better. So we're all too happy to let "desparate" immigrants do it for us. Oh that is, until we think they're taking over the NHS or benefits etc. The hypocrisy and entitlement is just mind boggling. We won't do the shit jobs ourselves, we whinge like hell there aren't enough skilled workers or well paid jobs, happy to let foreigners do the shitty jobs then complain that they're here.
 
I am fully aware it's back breaking work. So what? it needs to be done. The point is us Brits think that kind of work is beneath us even when we don't have the smarts or education to do anything better. So we're all too happy to let "desparate" immigrants do it for us. Oh that is, until we think they're taking over the NHS or benefits etc. The hypocrisy and entitlement is just mind boggling. We won't do the shit jobs ourselves, we whinge like hell there aren't enough skilled workers or well paid jobs, happy to let foreigners do the shitty jobs then complain that they're here.
Funny, they don't hire 'desperate immigrants' to pick it, they do it themselves as they haven't been making enough money from it to pay other people. But you carry on with your fantasy reality.
 
Blame the kids, it's all their fault, obviously. Not the fault of a government that hasn't acted soon enough of strongly enough to curtail the worst social media has to offer and continues with a foreign policy that requires a large standing army while not providing the funding it requires to operate.

But yeh let's scapegoat kids cos there's gammon votes to be had.
This 100%
 
The unknown is whether Putin is a Hitler, planning on marching further into Europe after Ukraine. If that is the case, having thousands of military trained civilians would be a good thing. Might even put Putin off invading.
As it stands, he must surely see our civilian youth as a bunch of armchair dwelling softies.
 
Funny, they don't hire 'desperate immigrants' to pick it, they do it themselves as they haven't been making enough money from it to pay other people. But you carry on with your fantasy reality.
Sigh... you have reading comprehension issues? I clearly said: "NB the program was about 15 years ago and I fully accept that things are different now."

At the time of the program the asparagus growers were completely dependant on migratory seasonal workers to do the picking as no british person would do it. If you don't believe that ever happened. Take it up with the program makers not me.
 
Sigh... you have reading comprehension issues? I clearly said: "NB the program was about 15 years ago and I fully accept that things are different now."

At the time of the program the asparagus growers were completely dependant on migratory seasonal workers to do the picking as no british person would do it. If you don't believe that ever happened. Take it up with the program makers not me.
So if it's not representative of the current status quo why do you choose to bring it up as an example of why teenagers would 'rather be back home laying on their beds on their phones'?
 
The unknown is whether Putin is a Hitler, planning on marching further into Europe after Ukraine. If that is the case, having thousands of military trained civilians would be a good thing. Might even put Putin off invading.
As it stands, he must surely see our civilian youth as a bunch of armchair dwelling softies.
Yes I imagine a load of teenagers with a few months training and knackered gear is going to put the willies right up him.
 
Going back to the moral point, from the people I've talked to they cite rubbish and aging equipment which is not fit for purpose, and the constant "going on Exercise" with little downtime and little time for being at home. Lack of investment and a shrinking Army with the same commitments.
 
Going back to the moral point, from the people I've talked to they cite rubbish and aging equipment which is not fit for purpose, and the constant "going on Exercise" with little downtime and little time for being at home. Lack of investment and a shrinking Army with the same commitments.

Service personnel have few of the perks they used to have (subsidised food, accommodation, education for the family etc) and all of the downsides. Some of the increase in defence spending should be redress that balance; it's the best chance to improve recruitment and retention.
 
Going back to the moral point, from the people I've talked to they cite rubbish and aging equipment which is not fit for purpose, and the constant "going on Exercise" with little downtime and little time for being at home. Lack of investment and a shrinking Army with the same commitments.
Did a stint of n/s a while back a waste of time now the cynic in me sees this as the latest attempt to stop the boats and flights to sunny Africa!
 
Service personnel have few of the perks they used to have (subsidised food, accommodation, education for the family etc) and all of the downsides. Some of the increase in defence spending should be redress that balance; it's the best chance to improve recruitment and retention.
I'm a tree hugging peacenik but I think if you're going to ask people to sign up and fight you absolutely have a duty to treat them properly.
 


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