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Army morale and national service possibilities

davidsrsb said:
Ukraine has shown that modern warfare does seem to be switching back to swarms of men being forced to charge at machine guns
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Depends on how many suitable drones, etc, you have.

The Tories I've heard on this seem to be trying to present it as somehow 'voluntary' despight being mandated. Its bonkers, but may appeal to some of the dimmer wrinkly vote the Tories may hope to get.

if you want good armed forces you need to provide an attractive option. e.g. decent housing and conditions on base. Training in skills that would also be useful after leaving. Decent pay. etc.

Not: Pay peanuts to have people march about and live in lousy accomdation, etc. Gets 'em off the streets, etc.... until they leave, now knowing more about how to main/kil/dominate others. Upskilling more future drugs barons if you do it wrong!
 
An interesting entry in Hansard from, er, last Thursday from the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence.

The Government has no current plans to reintroduce National Service.
...
If potentially unwilling National Service recruits were to be obliged to serve alongside the professional men and women of our Armed Forces, it could damage morale, recruitment and retention and would consume professional military and naval resources. If, on the other hand, National Service recruits were kept in separate units, it would be difficult to find a proper and meaningful role for them, potentially harming motivation and discipline. For all these reasons, there are no current plans for the restoration of any form of National Service.

www.theyworkforyou.com

National Service: National Security

Ministry of Defence written question – answered at 23 May 2024
www.theyworkforyou.com www.theyworkforyou.com
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Dog whistle to the pensioner vote.
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Yes, but not even that really. More a dog whistle to party members in terms of laying out the ground for the post election leadership election. It’s the moderates offering up an outlandish option which the right wingers will now have to go even more full loon on to appeal to their base. A neat way for the moderates to portray the extreme right wingers, who continue to believe they’ve the ear of the country, as the fascists in waiting they really are.

Immensely frustrating that people use this sort of thing as a platform to debate national service as though it would ever again become a thing when for politicians raising it is so clearly about position and posture.
 
My late FIL joined the RAF in 1950 and served for over 30 years so was involved during the post war national service years.

He said the national service recruits were generally a ****** nuisance because it took 15 months of training to get them to a state where they could do a useful job, they would then be an asset for 3 months and spend the last 6 months of their their service counting the days and generally wasting their and everyone else`s time.
 
In Italy some years ago, there was mandatory national service for young men, and they could choose a non-military option that lasted twice as long. They staffed some of the Youth Hostels where we stayed, and the equivalent of National Trust properties. It may well have changed now.
I have no idea if it is a good idea or not, but there is certainly lot of expectation of rights, but much less of responsibilities at present.
 
Older people phone LBC and suggest bringing back national service for the young. It’s a good policy to to get votes for the conservatives.
 
Mike Hughes said:
Yes, but not even that really. More a dog whistle to party members in terms of laying out the ground for the post election leadership election. It’s the moderates offering up an outlandish option which the right wingers will now have to go even more full loon on to appeal to their base. A neat way for the moderates to portray the extreme right wingers, who continue to believe they’ve the ear of the country, as the fascists in waiting they really are.

Immensely frustrating that people use this sort of thing as a platform to debate national service as though it would ever again become a thing when for politicians raising it is so clearly about position and posture.
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If this is accurate the nuances are hopelessly lost on almost everyone. It also disgusts me that our lives and emotions are playthings for their shenanigans.
 
hifinutt said:
well i looked after a wonderful 92 year old , he loved to tell me of the wonderful 2 years he spent in the RAF on National service and all his adventures . it gave him a real start and guide in life . I tried to get a family member into the army to give him skills for life but sadly it never happened . i think it gives huge strides in discipline and direction
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My dad hated national service.
 
MVV said:
Absolute nonsense. They assure us no one will go to jail, so presumably it’s optional. They can suggest any deranged ideas they have because only oblivion awaits.
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Two thoughts on that:
- why would you believe any claim by the Tories?
- Cleverly was very specific about “not going to jail”. Would you put it past the Tories to remove benefits from anyone unwilling to go, meaning that the rich kids can go to uni, whilst the poor will learn how to polish boots
 
Jubal said:
If this is accurate the nuances are hopelessly lost on almost everyone. It also disgusts me that our lives and emotions are playthings for their shenanigans.
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Is it true/accurate? Have you met a Conservative councillor or MP who genuinely believes they will form the next government? I’m guessing not. They've spent the week literally dropping legislation people have spent hours attacking when it hadn’t a hope in hell of becoming law and now, a bit like the JRM argument for reversing decimalisation which fell flat on its arse, here’s another magnificent bit of click bait, throw back “here’s an answer to a probiem no-one noticed/here’s a solution looking for a problem“ we have this utter tosh.

To be clear, it’s an idea floated to wake up a subset of their support and nothing else. It’s unlikely to become a manifesto pledge and it certainly won’t ever become law.

People saying “it could be good“ or “my Dad liked it” are, to put it mildly, totally and utterly missing the point. It’s not a real thing. It’s not a real proposal. It never will be.
 
Mike Hughes said:
Is it true/accurate? Have you met a Conservative councillor or MP who genuinely believes they will form the next government? I’m guessing not. They've spent the week literally dropping legislation people have spent hours attacking when it hadn’t a hope in hell of becoming law and now, a bit like the JRM argument for reversing decimalisation which fell flat on its arse, here’s another magnificent bit of click bait, throw back “here’s an answer to a probiem no-one noticed/here’s a solution looking for a problem“ we have this utter tosh.

To be clear, it’s an idea floated to wake up a subset of their support and nothing else. It’s unlikely to become a manifesto pledge and it certainly won’t ever become law.

People saying “it could be good“ or “my Dad liked it” are, to put it mildly, totally and utterly missing the point. It’s not a real thing. It’s not a real proposal. It never will be.
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I agree with you. It’s just the motives, especially internal party ones, that intrigue me. Noisy clickbait at face value, potential way to deflect Reform, and a tactic to expose their own ultra right wing as you said. Survival mode.
 
Blame the kids, it's all their fault, obviously. Not the fault of a government that hasn't acted soon enough of strongly enough to curtail the worst social media has to offer and continues with a foreign policy that requires a large standing army while not providing the funding it requires to operate.

But yeh let's scapegoat kids cos there's gammon votes to be had.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Two thoughts on that:
- why would you believe any claim by the Tories?
- Cleverly was very specific about “not going to jail”. Would you put it past the Tories to remove benefits from anyone unwilling to go, meaning that the rich kids can go to uni, whilst the poor will learn how to polish boots
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That sort of thing did cross my mind too.
 
Well the "too many young people live in their own bubble" is true as far as I can see. But that's certainly no justification for some form of national service (either military or otherwise). The volunteering one weekend a month thing just sounds like labour exploitation to me.

There's people saying it's being proposed because they believe there's a real threat of direct war with Russia. I can't see that personally, I think even Putin (irrational as he is) recognises direct military engagement between any Russian and Western forces would be a very bad thing for everyone.
 
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