IWC Doppel
pfm Member
Woodface, crikey calm down old chap, what on earth are you talking about !
Another mains fuse hits the streets
- Thread starter Cyclopse
- Start date
Woodface, crikey calm down old chap, what on earth are you talking about !
It’s pretty obvious. Regs are there for a reason.
And any thought of damaging them due to a £50 fuse is probably stupidity, hence having the appropriate fuse where necessary 
martin clark
pinko bodger
At this point in the thread, an amusing anecdote is needed...
About 25yrs ago, fresh out of uni, some-how 'Architect of Record'.. in a location on N Borneo. Well: I was on site the day the substation was energised, on a large development of shophouses, and - as was usu then/there/ all the sewage went into digester tanks, relying on oxygen circ, before anaerobic-digestion, and all that follows; a standalone system. Pretty darn efficient tbh when done well.
These digesters relied on a bank of c.100KW of 'blowers' ( helical air pumps /exactly/ like a supercharger after the GMC 6/71 and sim beloved of Drag racing fans. but, very large) As such - hooked to very-large 3-phase motors. Yet - obvs, since the thing took >1yr to build .. those tanks were, erm, already-filled by the site workers, long-before energisation. Rancid.
And
- the moment 'energisation' happened, there was the most almighty, utterly- Rong, Glorping/suck noise I'll not forget- and I ran for it, as the foreman shouted .. very-rude words at the electrician, in a couple of languages. Yeah: ~ 250Kw of blowers, wired with errant phase- reversal. (NB - you only have to swap any 2 wires, out of 3 on a 3-phase system to do this = it is, easily done.)
Literal case of just-avoiding the S%it hitting the fan; mercifully, blower-input at top of tanks weren't ever really going to draw-much; and the input filters caught it.. well-enough %}
True story.
John Phillips
pfm Member
In a very similar s**t hitting the fan context, this is what I was told by someone, maybe also 25 years ago, who claimed he was at fault for writing the control software. I have no idea if it's true but I really want it to be.
The context was an electricity grid power storage system. It pumped water at slack demand time into a high-level reservoir. To be released later, at peak demand time, through a generator to satisfy peak demand. In the manner of Dinorwig (but it wasn't Dinorwig).
On the initial trial run, at the start of slack demand time his software turned on the really big pumps to fill the reservoir. At full power.
The water pressure wave which that created propagated along the water pipeline. A few minutes later, it hit the pipeline's outlet. The water was already flowing into the reservoir. Great. So far so good.
However, at the pipeline's outlet the impedance of the water transmission line changed abruptly. Those who know what that means in other contexts will instantly think of the inevitable reflection of some proportion of that pressure wave back down the pipeline. Something my informant said he wasn't expecting.
A few minutes later that reflected pressure wave hit the pumps. BANG! Everything stopped working. Very expensively.
Sorry. This is not on topic. But my excuse is that for me audiophile fuses just don't hack it in any big context. The amusing anecdote actually seems rather incredible to me, but I really want it to be true. I just don't know. Sorry.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Exactly that!
'Audiophile fuses' == already, a long-demonstrable utter-idiocy. One for which, there are Sellers; and Buyers.
Whereof one cannot speak - let us pass over in silence, as Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus summary.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
They're going well as they were fairly old when you had them, though I can't remember if you had the C/Bs or the Olives as I had 4 for bi-amping if I remember.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Not sure what you're talking about here; audiophile fuses? Why are they dangerous? I have no opinion on them, though my dealer friend has tried a Synergistic Research one and found it to be beneficial in his situation but dangerous? It's a fuse !!!!!
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Sorry, missed this. The plot deepens. What have regulations got to do with fancy fuses? If it's the correct value and kosher, what's the problem? I'm baffled by your utterances.
It was more about the wider chat relating to some wacky installations.
IWC Doppel
pfm Member
Mike, hi Yes I have 5 pairs of 135's now and use 9 in the AV set up (4 of them driving the Sonus Faber Extremas) I also have a few other CB boxes helping out and include a CB cased Supercap, a 32.5 and a CB cased XPS-2, I also use 5x 500W sub amplifiers dealing with frequencies from 8-65Hz with 5 subwoofers, maybe that's seen as dangerous by some !, I do know that 18" drivers can be intimidating.
(PS I still have no clue why a separate correctly rated fused line from a CU with low impedance theatre grade 6mm^2 cable was dangerous and if I had any Children they would somehow be in danger, I'm very glad though if I ever did spend money on an audiophile fuse we have established that no one is likely to die)
Alex S
carbon based lifeform
Audiophile fuses, particularly those installed by cheap "upgrade" chasers (I'm not referring to Synergistic Research), are overrated (sic) on purpose, the belief being a thicker wire is better. These are not to spec and potentially dangerous and when taken to extreme you get the copper bar in the plug (or case).
narabdela
who?
The regulations discussion is a side issue which seems to have sprung up in relation to the baffling ignorance of basic electrical theory demonstrated in some quarters, particularly in relation to fuses and their purpose.
Beobloke
pfm Member
Put simply, UK plugtop fuses are required to adhere to British Standard BS1362, which fully specifies their operational characteristics, behaviour under load and the way they rupture under a fault condition.
If you buy fuses from suppliers like Farnell or RS Components and pick well-known fuse manufacturers like Cooper Bussmann, Littelfuse or SIBA, these will be fully tested to comply with the regulations and have suitable data sheets and certification available.
In general, fancy audiophile fuses are somewhat lacking in this information which suggests to many of us that they might possibly be either cheap uncertified Chinese knock-offs or simply a Cooper Bussmann fuse with a fancy label on. Either way, paying hundreds of pounds for one is preposterous when a Cooper Bussmann is around 30p
Roog
pfm Member
I read as much in a reported interview with a well known company director who sells specialist fuses for audio use. To paraphrase, he explained that he re-labled bussmann fuses because he did not have the resources to put his own fuse make through the necessary testing, but I recall he offered extra services as ‘adding value’ such as selection and burn in.
At the time I checked the original fuse manufacturers data sheets and was quite surprised to see that their product used silver in its construction as standard, hence the claims made about silver by in the audio rebranding was actually accurate, well at least that part was! Who knew, silver is used as standard in some fuses? And yet the manufacturer never thought to crow about it.
so in this case it was a safe product made by a reputable manufacturer and if people want to pay 10x or more for a bussmann fuse well that makes them feel good, well I guess that’s up to them.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Can't remember reading of these, Woodface. One either has a radial circuit to the hifi (and in many forms) which requires the appropriate RCBO/MCB in the c.u. or one gets one's supply from a domestic ring circuit, which requires protection from appropriate individual plug fuses.
There are variations on both themes, but I really can't think of another way of getting mains to one's hifi. Can you point out the 'wacky' installations you refer to? Each actual installation has required a qualified electrician to connect, test and certify, for two decades at least.
There have been changes to reg's over that time; metal consumer units to plastic ones and back to metal again. cable changes, RCBOs becoming re rigour rather than a personal (and expensive) option plus other alterations, but i.m.o., the basic premise of safety has been well catered for since the introduction of consumer units, MCBs, RCDs, proper earthing and the extinction of those terrible wire fuses.
herb
brain's right hemisphere
Gosh I am Impressed with your kit. What sort of music do you play? Acoustic or electronic?Mike, hi Yes I have 5 pairs of 135's now and use 9 in the AV set up (4 of them driving the Sonus Faber Extremas) I also have a few other CB boxes helping out and include a CB cased Supercap, a 32.5 and a CB cased XPS-2, I also use 5x 500W sub amplifiers dealing with frequencies from 8-65Hz with 5 subwoofers, maybe that's seen as dangerous by some !, I do know that 18" drivers can be intimidating.
(PS I still have no clue why a separate correctly rated fused line from a CU with low impedance theatre grade 6mm^2 cable was dangerous and if I had any Children they would somehow be in danger, I'm very glad though if I ever did spend money on an audiophile fuse we have established that no one is likely to die)
I find my hifi just uses a plug socket on the wall. I have no idea what the technicalities are except that everything has been tested.
The talk earlier about electricians felt a bit flakey to me. I couldn’t care less about what crap people believe in but I’d never put the safety of myself & family at risk for a supposed lift in sound quality.
These audiophile fuses are probably safe but they just prey on the gullible.
IWC Doppel
pfm Member
On that set up mostly film, as it's a home Cinema set up, but I do use music discs for reference and testing. Musicwise I often listen to various Jazz, a few Acoustic and some folk. Jack Johnson sounds quite impressive with 9 12" drivers, two 18" and the Sonus Faber Extremas tacking along. No shortage of bass guitar weight or slam
I follow a Harman curve so the low frequencies rise below 100HzElectronic does sound impressive prticularly the tracks with a bit of bass weight.