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Another Hi-Fi holy cow put out to pasture . . .

hifi-dog said:
I use atacama gel pads under my scm19’s to good effect so similar - what sorborthane did you use?
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They are 5cm 50 durometer hemispheres. The load rating range on each one is 7.5 - 11kg. My speakers weigh 30kg so I can use either 4 or 3 pads to experiment with being at either end of the pads effective range. So far I think four pads are better i.e with each 'working' less.

Reading up on sorbothane (and springs) I realise there is a great deal to understand about using them properly (what freqencies are effected by what type of loading and spring etc). I think what I have done is a basic isolation of the speaker with the pads working properly i.e not over or under loaded. If you had the time and skills you could isolate particular frequencies much more effectively than my simple method.

This approach is quite different from using the balls and cups etc. others have mentioned. Indeed, I have never understood the logic of how they isolate the two bodies involved. I think in many ways this approach will actually provide a very good connection and route for the transmission of energy. Perhaps that's how they actually work by draining energy; I'm no expert here but have grown very sceptical. Sorbothane (or other compliant material) works by converting energy into heat and its effectiveness is easy to see; there is now no vibration or ringing in the loudspeaker stand with the pads in place. The energy from the loudspeaker is clearly not propagating into the stand.

Doug
 
Tony L said:
I have but one set of spikes left anywhere in my three systems, just on the bottom of the Target R4 stands that support my JR149s. They are there purely to seat and level them through the carpet and underlay and more a security and levelling thing than sound. My big Lockwoods and Klipsch La Scalas just sit on the carpet. They are too heavy to rock around and also far too heavy for me to lift so I couldn’t spike them even if I wanted to!

FWIW for the past 15-20 years or so I’ve backed away from all audiophile furniture etc as whilst I’m in no doubt it makes a difference the difference it makes is usually ‘worse’ to me! This started off when I found I preferred my kit sitting on the floor than on an expensive Mana table system and has slowly developed over the years. IME spikes always make things sound leaner, drier and more forward, and I just don’t want that. These days I seek a very natural, organic and relaxed sound. I have really gone off ‘edge of the seat’ hi-fi.

For the JR149 speaker/stand interface, i.e. where you have the Sorbothene stuff, I’m usung felt pads which sound better to my ears/taste than cones, Blu-Tac or whatever. I’d be tempted to try Sorbothene, but given such a small speaker I’d not want any risk of tipping them off the stands!
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Atacama gel pads are the best support I have come across where sorbothane is concerned, they are quite firm, so rocking isn't a problem, they completely eliminate any vibration from entering the stand & vice versa, quite cheap too. I had some free with a pair of stands I once tried out, they eliminate the stands acoustic influence on the sound.
Felt pads are quite nice though, but they do add something to the sound, a softer, more laid back feel.
 
We all work with what is best in our circumstances, nothing brave or cool about not using something that will enhance your system's ability to function correctly.
 
To follow up on the two sets of photos of baffleless basses I posted - both implementations feature wire supports hanging the bass drivers such that they swing really easily yet there's no perceptible movement even with massive cone excursions. These Dayton 390 15" drivers move a lot of air in this configuration. The move to wire suspension from rigid mounting brought a very significant improve in bass quality - texture and detail - making the original mounting sound coloured.
 
Interesting bass setup there ..never seen or heard anything like it.
Anything Squishy is isolation/decoupled , hard and rigid is coupled.
At any rate most vibration is airborne anyway and you cant do much about it
 
Having a 'rigid' or 'spiked' firm connection from speaker to floor does two things. It tends to hold the speaker system at the connection points. But it also transmits vibrations to the floor. Hence it is a trade-off between what those twp effects do. I've found for the ESLs in my main system having spiked though the carpet gives a better bass response. I suspect the speaker frames 'rock' when given bass, and this then also flexes the floor that acts as an additional LF driver!

More generally, with speakers like the LS3/5A I put a carpet tile between speaker and stand as this helps reduce any vibration from 'ringing' the stand (which is also filled with sand).

FWIW decades ago I was curious about the old Wharfedale SFBs but decided to get a student to do a project on an alternative. This was to make what looked like a huge seaside deckchair with carpet instead of the usual fabric. A bass driver was then fitted to a hole, offcenter. The result was a baffle around the speaker which was *not* rigid. So didn't have much in the way of baffle resonances. However it was heavy enough to improve the bass. It looked odd, but worked quite nicely. Never seen anything like it as a commercial product, but if someone wants to DIY experiment I'd recommend having a play with the idea. :)

I think I've still got the project report somewhere. *Finding* it is another matter, though...
 
I have moved from tuning my Mana rack every year, and having spiked speakers, to using BrightStar IsoNodes under my speaker stands, and have decoupled all of my HiFi components from the rack using IsoNodes, and Black Ravioli under the amp.

The sound went from one that really got the room going, and annoying the neighbours, to no complaints, more focus to the sound, goes louder with cleaner and tighter bass, and a more natural and 3D top end.

I also moved my turntable into the dining room area on top of a cabinet (using 2.5m interconnects), on an acrylic sheet supported by IsoNodes - no more woofer pumping this was a great upgrade!
 
cjarchez said:
I remember being amazed by these,

images


Worked defyingly well under many speakers.
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I've got a set of those going spare if anyone wants to try. No idea what they're worth or what I paid for them, so feel free to PM me if anyone wants to try. I used them under my DAC for a while.
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
FWIW decades ago I was curious about the old Wharfedale SFBs but decided to get a student to do a project on an alternative. This was to make what looked like a huge seaside deckchair with carpet instead of the usual fabric. A bass driver was then fitted to a hole, offcenter. The result was a baffle around the speaker which was *not* rigid. So didn't have much in the way of baffle resonances. However it was heavy enough to improve the bass. It looked odd, but worked quite nicely. Never seen anything like it as a commercial product, but if someone wants to DIY experiment I'd recommend having a play with the idea. :)
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That is an interesting idea. I imagine if one were to use thick, heavy and inert enough carpet (maybe a couple of layers joined) it could work rather well.

PS Still not got my lone SFB working yet...
 
Eyeing up the baffle less design speakers... I am seeing a way to make that less evil mad scientist... (though that is prime for a steampunk brass and walnut interpretation as is) and it involves giant 100 deniers...
 
The utilisation of sorbothane as a support method for ATC loudspeakers is ingenious.
The only downside to the use of sorbothane is that it robs the music of any emotion, rhythm or tune.
Luckily these are areas where the ATC's are already almost completely inert.
A marriage made in heaven!
 
david ellwood said:
The utilisation of sorbothane as a support method for ATC loudspeakers is ingenious.
The only downside to the use of sorbothane is that it robs the music of any emotion, rhythm or tune.
Luckily these are areas where the ATC's are already almost completely inert.
A marriage made in heaven!
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I'm not sure quite the manner in which your post is made, but our experience here is clearly quite different. o_O
 
I also found adding spikes to my 63s already on Stands improved the bass, but the spikes raised them a couple of cm higher, and allowed me to tilt them back a bit further, so who really knows root cause :)
 
fatmarley said:
I'm no expert, but the way I see It Is vibrations travel through the speaker enclosure and through whatever they are sitting on. Putting shock absorbers between the cabinet and floor or stand seems like the logical thing to do.
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I think that's too simplistic - surely the extent to which vibrations travel must be determined by both the frequency of the vibration, and the materials used.. Hence a shock absorber has to be tuned..

(just calling on my A level Physics here - no expertise on my part !)
 
jtrade said:
I am also fascinated by this approach : is it a derivation of Linkwitz’s work & is there a mid and tweeter sitting on top, I wonder ?
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Not especially Linkwitz though no doubt he could have had a part to play.

Yes there are mids and a tweeter. These are the drivers for the Bastanis Sagarmatha.
2018-05-26_04-13-49 by Clive M, on Flickr

2018-05-26_04-13-33 by Clive M, on Flickr

Two iNuke 300 DSP amps for those swingin' bass drivers
2018-05-26_04-14-07 by Clive M, on Flickr
 
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