Another classic in my collection - Densen Beat B-400 Plus

[Dowser]

Edited to add: Woah! This player cost £1400 in 2007!

Picked one of above up cheaply yesterday as it was faulty on a local auction site - it was first sold a few weeks back and I was tracking it, but it sold for over CHF 200.- even when not reading discs reliably. I nearly bought it then...but had bought a Wadia DAC and Sugden CDP recently, so held off. Apparently buyer refused to take it when it didn't read a disc twice in a row - it was re-advertised and I scored it for CHF 93.- this time (£80?)...with a Gizmo remote (admittedly with 2 broken buttons - anyone know if spares still available?), decent power lead, decent-ish Marantz interconnects, plus the Densen link cable.

As described - not reading discs everytime, and skipping. It's a Sony KS-213c laser in it - spin motor felt OK, but literally one small drop of light oil on the spin motor's top bearing and it came back to life. So I decided to do a full mech clean and re-lube.

Interestingly, Densen fit their own servo PCB onto the Sony mech (see photos below), and judging by motor connection solder points, laser may have been changed before. Cleaned and relubed everything, one issue (that I've seen before on Sony mechs), the white plastic sled rail opposite the sled motor has a really small hairline crack in it - can barely feel it with a finger nail, but I've had this cause intermittent pauses/skipping in the past (ha! while typing this it just paused halfway through disc - new mech required ).

Anyhow - really nice design it looks - shame they do not put specs on their "Densen" caps though Sounds pretty decent - but I've had a lot of kit through my system recently, and have not listened to my Naim CDI for a few weeks. But for sure I could easily live with it.

Anyone have experience of early Densen products?

So, photos...
Fixed and in my system (offset to protect plastic lid of CDI );

Happily playing after a single drop of oil from a syringe to top spin motor bearing;

Densen servo PCB for Sony mech - look at motor solder points - it must have been swapped once before;

Open heart to allow clean and re-lube - you can see white rail the laser slides up and down, but resolution not good enough to show crack, sorry;

Bit a PitA design - you have to remove front panel from lid to run it with lid off, but worth it for the great overall aesthetics I guess;

Sounds really nice actually. Please, if anyone has experience of Gizmo button replacement, please let me know

Thanks, Richard

 

[Adam Mokrzycki]

Interesting, I didn't know they used a Sony drive in the earlier models.

B410, 410 Plus, 420 - all have been based on a computer CD-ROM drives, which were neither reliable not easy to replace.

 

[Dowser]

After a few hours playing it snapped into focus, and also has not skipped again - while I listened to it until 3am this morning I was skipping through discs a lot, so may not have been playing disc over the crack - still reckon it will need a new mech chassis, let’s see.

have to balance this against fact I have been listening to a Wadia X-32 DAC with a Sugden Optima as transport for last week or so, and have left my CDI unplugged, but the Densen sounds really, really good - fantastic imaging, perhaps a touch forward with higher frequencies…at least compared to what I am used to/like. I like it, at direct comparison with Naim CDI is required.

one annoying thing - there is a very, very mild sizzling sound output from RCAs when not playing. It either disappears or is masked as soon as music starts playing. Don’t here it from listening position, but I’m right next an ESL when swapping discs

Need to investigate - think an email to Densen them selves in first instance.

 

[torstoi]

one annoying thing - there is a very, very mild sizzling sound output from RCAs when not playing.

Interesting..I have the very same thing with some older CDPs & dacs and already wondered what it could be.
By tendency newer items seem to be silent, so I thought changing the 30yr old power-supply caps for new Panasonic FCs may perhaps solve it.. ?

 

[Dowser]

From my experience, it's not normal @torstoi - first time I ever heard something similar. Need to get a scope on it and see if it disappears when playing (then I can ignore ), or whether the music is just masking it (it's very quiet) - then I must fix. Densen marketing suggests it de-gausses the internally circuitry each time you load a disc - is that bullshit or maybe the cause?

I got feedback from Densen support over the weekend (!) - buttons for Gizmo still available, but as the guy explained - stupidly expensive for them to provide, and if I search the internet the individual parts are readily available via internet much cheaper. I like this approach Unfortunately, zero cct diagrams available for it though unfortunately - to be expected to be honest, their output stage is pretty special (6W class A zero FB output power if marketing to be believed ).

I give it a few weeks and then do a serious comparison with the Naim CDI. Via analogue out it sounds forward in a nice way, and I've listened to a for 2 nights now into the wee small hours - 45 mins today listening to it via digi out into my Wadia X-32 - my ears were bleeding and I switched it off

 

[James]

Interesting, I didn't know they used a Sony drive in the earlier models.

B410, 410 Plus, 420 - all have been based on a computer CD-ROM drives, which were neither reliable not easy to replace.

My 440XS uses a Teac CD-ROM drive. I got a spare unit from Densen HQ when my 440XS shipped. Incidentally, it was to replace my 400XS, which developed a faulty mech and Densen did not have any more original Sony mechs to replace it with under its lifetime warranty. So far, the 440XS has been utterly reliable. Must get that 400XS fixed with a replica KSS 213c.

 

[Dowser]

For completeness - I just realised I never updated this thread with the fix for the sizzling (I'm trying to sell the player here in CH, and a user here asked the question ) - sizzling was fixed when I changed the mech - see here for photos (at bottom of thread) - either a 5% under-reading 1kuF cap near processor, or a dodgy mains lead connection on a mains input filter...which fell off when I removed the main PCB

To note - I measured the same cap in a 400XS I later repaired - also 5% under - I replaced it, no idea if it was important

Richard

 

[Alex S]

I would still have a 400XS if it wasn’t lost in transit. Bought a B-410 here a few years ago, play it most days and it’s been faultless.

Densen players look and sound great IMO. Mind you, the CDI is a bit special.

 

[Dowser]

CDI suits my ears better, but at this level it is really all about personal preference, there are no rights or wrongs IMVHO. I sold the 400+ for chf 285, double what I paid for and repaired it, so I’m happy Would have maybe got more if selling in the UK.