advertisement


Amp-Crossover-Speaker connection quiz...

Update;

Les got in touch and suggested I try his Black Link wire for the project. I said yes please and the parcel arrived yesterday. Thank you, Les :)

I opened the bag and pulled out the 30M coil of speaker cable - except it wasn't speaker cable.... or so I thought. At first I just thought 'what's Les doing sending me 30M of interconnect, when I need speaker cable?'

I'll get a photo of it later, but it is very thin two-core shielded cable, and that goes against what I normally assume is needed (lowest impedance) to properly drive a speaker. This situation is different though, as the cable is being tri-wired from the XO to each of the three drivers, so the load per cable is considerably reduced. That said, last night as I fed the cables into place (under floor), I couldn't help but feel a little bit negative about how things would turn out - was the sound going to be gutless, that sort of thing.

Method A was used (with the short length of A5 to the XO) - later I'll get around to doing as Markus suggested, but that requires the XO to be re-worked and will take time to do. After cabling, I only had time for a few tracks, but the initial results are very encouraging. Absolutely no gutless weedy sound, for a start! Yes there is a different presentation to the bass, as it sounds like a layer of 'bloom' has been removed and this does make the bass seem a bit less full, but it is arguably more accurate as a result. The whole range has become cleaner/clearer, which is right up my street as this is what (IMHO) is needed of a hifi - a fully open window to what's on the recording.

More to follow...

Mr Tibbs
 
'what's Les doing sending me 30M of interconnect, when I need speaker cable?'


Never doubt Les W, aka "The Professor"

topleft1.png
 
Never doubt Les W, aka "The Professor"
Click to expand...

Aye, Basil. Les is one of very few who I trust - otherwise I'd not have gone to the bother of feeding the cable under-floor - ironically this job turned out easy because the cable is so thin!

I use Les's cable to drive my Arcs with a 260z with very good results...
Click to expand...

Arcs.... gulp.

Mr Tibbs
 
Well, those pesky little electrons don't always like things being changed, but this time they seem well pleased with their new three-lane highway between crossover and speaker :)

The music is better - no doubt about that. The change we're talking about is almost what you'd expect if a better power amp was introduced into the system. Better separation of individual sounds, with an increased dynamic range and clarity. In short, the music is more real as a result.

The (one) problem with this mod is that I've changed not only the connection method but also the type of cable (Les's Black Link) so I don't know how much of the effect is due to the new cable or new connection method. Not very scientific I know, but what the hell - overall the experiment has worked and that's all that matters to me. However, I will hazard a guess and say that the two changes probably complement each other. The close-coupled XO/Amp is serving to reduce driver intermodulation, as the amp has a better 'grip' on the XO, so this should clean up the sound quite a bit. After that, the Black Link cable is probably much better than A5 at maintaining the integrity of the signals over the few metres between XO and speaker.

Looking at the tiny proportions of the Black Link compared to A5, it's hard to get my head around the fact that it can deliver such a powerful and dramatic sound. This has been a learning experience for me, as it has reminded me once again that quality wins over quantity every time.

Thanks again, Les.

Mr Tibbs

Note to James, you simply must try this!
 
Mr Tibbs said:
Note to James, you simply must try this!
Click to expand...
Mr Tibbs,

When I get more Mogami cable next, I'll give this a go. Reconfiguring five sets of PXOs seems a reasonable way to pass the time.

James
 
When I get more Mogami cable next, I'll give this a go. Reconfiguring five sets of PXOs seems a reasonable way to pass the time.
Click to expand...

James, I haven't split the XO's yet - the input from the amp is approx 200mm of A5. You would not believe what this has done for the E-III's, it is truly remarkable. I remember you saying that the IV's beat the III's in terms of 'involvement', well, this mod is all about involvement - exactly that! It's as if the mechanics of reproducing the music have taken a big step back, leaving just the music and nothing else. I'm certain you will love it - it could finally convince you that passive XO's need not limit the performance of a speaker.

We've moved away from Naim power in preference of a more complete sound, and the great news is that we are also free of stability concerns and are therefore free to take advantage of close-coupled PXO's and wonder cables such as the Avondale Black Link. I would re-wire the E-III internals with this stuff, but it could prove to be very tricky.

Mr Tibbs
 
Beware ..... old thread!

Could not be bothered to start a new thread yet so tagged it on here. Hope you don't mind Mr Tibbs.

I have now put my 2 way xovers right next to the ncc200, not boxed up yet though. I am also using two runs of blacklink but that has been in the system for over a year. I have also previously rewired my ncc amp so that there are two wires right back to the ncc200 output spade connector and two speaker 0V returns to the ac side of the minicap6. That means two sets of speaker binding posts on the back of each monobloc.

Anyway, i must concur with what Mr Tibbs and Les have said about this. The sound is much clearer. More details have emerged especially noticeable on vocals as i was listening to Sheryl Crow.

More later.
 
This has to be a record resurrection. The thread is more than a decade old! It is a credit to Tony's policy of keeping DIY threads alive indefinitely.
 
Would this be advantageous in all cases where people have external Xovers ? for example in my case: Sugden A21SE into WD25TEx floorstanders. At present I use 2 x 5m cables and have the Xovers close to the speakers.
 
Chris said:
Would this be advantageous in all cases where people have external Xovers ? for example in my case: Sugden A21SE into WD25TEx floorstanders. At present I use 2 x 5m cables and have the Xovers close to the speakers.
Click to expand...

Chris,

I am no expert but i can't see why you should not get an improvement with your set up. Put the crossovers near your amp, sit back and be amazed.
 
James said:
This has to be a record resurrection. The thread is more than a decade old! It is a credit to Tony's policy of keeping DIY threads alive indefinitely.
Click to expand...

Indeed James, i regularly use the search function in the DIY section and sometimes dig up stuff from 2004. I use google as well and put my search terms in followed by pinkfishmedia.net.

Did you ever try putting your xovers near the amps James ?

I am truly gobsmacked at the effect it has had. I almost think i am in the recording booth with Sheryl crow. Hidden layers (multi tracked) in vocals can now be picked out, phrasing and vibrato are much improved. The same can be said for every instrument, i almost feel that i am amongst the music now rather than sat a few paces away. Don't want to sound like something you would read in a hifi mag but i don't know how else to put it.

As Les says earlier in the thread, everything is clearer. Mr Tibbs wrote that it was like swapping in a better power amp. I would agree with that 100% and then some.

I currently have the xovers laying on a piece of wood 15cm behind the amp binding posts. If i could get them any closer i would, even putting them inside the amp! - maybe a bad idea.

Stu
 
mega lord said:
Did you ever try putting your xovers near the amps James ?

I am truly gobsmacked at the effect it has had. I almost think i am in the recording booth with Sheryl crow. Hidden layers (multi tracked) in vocals can now be picked out, phrasing and vibrato are much improved. The same can be said for every instrument, i almost feel that i am amongst the music now rather than sat a few paces away. Don't want to sound like something you would read in a hifi mag but i don't know how else to put it.

As Les says earlier in the thread, everything is clearer. Mr Tibbs wrote that it was like swapping in a better power amp. I would agree with that 100% and then some.
Click to expand...
No I haven't tried that yet, but you have given me a good excuse to do so. I have been intending to re-box the E-IIIR crossovers because they don't fit between the back of the loudspeakers and the wall without skewing them. I just need to pull finger and do a bit of rewiring when I can be arsed.
 
Along comes another timely thread resurrection! I'd been thinking of taking my xovers external and this thread appears to heavily support that. More tinkering to add to the list. A related question - my xovers are on a pcb with an 0v strip - is it worth hard wiring everything and starring the 0vs?
 
James Evans said:
Along comes another timely thread resurrection! I'd been thinking of taking my xovers external and this thread appears to heavily support that. More tinkering to add to the list. A related question - my xovers are on a pcb with an 0v strip - is it worth hard wiring everything and starring the 0vs?
Click to expand...
Go the whole hog and have individual 0V returns back to the amplifier. :D
 
I am severely tempted to put the crossovers in my amplifier, maybe a handful of inches between NCC200 output and xover.

I will have to give some consideration to this as to not get any interference between the filter inductors and the rest of the amp.

I am thinking of building four mono amps (voyager type) and splitting the xovers into low and high pass. The bass/mid filter consists of one ferrite cored inductor which will be easy to accomodate in the bass/mid amps tagged on the end of the ncc200 or speaker protection module. The tweeter filter will take up a bit more room as it is third order (2 caps and air cored inductor). May need some careful placement of the inductor.

May be a problem for the serial box swapper but i dont plan changing anything once my system is finished.

Stu
 
I´ll be doing a test this weekend with my A21SE and Wd25Tex for which I will use some old VandenHul CS122 ??? cables. If I decide to go ahead with the switch around on a permanent basis I´ll need to find a cable to thread through my underfloor trunking - I can get van damme 4-core blue or black or would a thinner cable be better for tweeter connection in this arrangement ?
 
If there´s anyone out there with external crossovers, you owe it to yourself to try placing them near to your amp We tested it with some old cables between Sugden A21a and WD20T speakers this afternoon and results were quite remarkable: all of a sudden the music locked your attention and became infinitely more interesting as in chiaroscuro, HD etc. and you´re in the middle of it all. A truly startling upgrade and for free !
 
Hi Chris,

Glad it worked for you. I am still amazed at the effect it has had. It is one of those improvements that makes you want to play disc after disc after disc......

Stu
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top