Actor Michael Sheen's Excellent Speech Slams Parties About The NHS Cuts

[Arkless Electronics]

How can it save money to hire private companies to carry out work previously done by the NHS's own staff??? Whether it's cleaning, catering whatever it stands to reason that employing a middle man who wants his cut is going to be more expensive than the NHS having it's own staff do the work....
Corruption is the root of this. Tory dogma that someone (preferably one of their pals) should make a profit out of everything and nothing can happen for altruistic motives is behind it.

 

[wyjsar]

Which were needed after the previous 19 years of neglect. Now the facilities exist it's easy to forget what things were like earlier.

Still waiting on Jo and the other bloke to explain what they would have done to improve things.

Your answer was on post 39... You may not like that answer but it doesn't mean you will get another one.
Not sure why you're still talking about 19 years here given the Tories were in power between 3rd May 1979 and 1st May 1997.

 

[Brian]

Your answer was on post 39... You may not like that answer but it doesn't mean you will get another one.
Not sure why you're still talking about 19 years here given the Tories were in power between 3rd May 1979 and 1st May 1997.

Don't worry yourself, lad. I'm not expecting a sensible reply from you having read the simplistic effort in #39.

 

[Mick P]

How can it save money to hire private companies to carry out work previously done by the NHS's own staff??? Whether it's cleaning, catering whatever it stands to reason that employing a middle man who wants his cut is going to be more expensive than the NHS having it's own staff do the work....
Corruption is the root of this. Tory dogma that someone (preferably one of their pals) should make a profit out of everything and nothing can happen for altruistic motives is behind it.

Arkless

The reason why private companies can do the same work as hospital staff at lower prices is economy of scale and specialist expertise.

You have to remember that in the case of PFI, cleaning is included in the original contract price. That was one of the attractions of PFI to the NHS, no more cleaning costs.

Also please note that PFI was used a lot more by Labour than by the Tories. Osborne is anti PFI whereas Andy Burnham was signing off PFI after PFI during his spell as Health Minister.

Mick

 

[Brian]

How can it save money to hire private companies to carry out work previously done by the NHS's own staff??? Whether it's cleaning, catering whatever it stands to reason that employing a middle man who wants his cut is going to be more expensive than the NHS having it's own staff do the work....
Corruption is the root of this. Tory dogma that someone (preferably one of their pals) should make a profit out of everything and nothing can happen for altruistic motives is behind it.

Pretty much spot on.

Some things belong in the private sector and some in the public sector. Both are essential for a properly functioning society.

 

[Brian]

Mick,

It's not a surprise should gideon be anti PFI, though there is this to consider and this

 

[Mick P]

Brian

If you are going to cop out by doing a google, at least have the decency not to insult everyones intelligence.

The two articles you quoted do not stipulate any figures or even give a reason why he is authorising the contracts. Posiibly the commitment was made by the previous government, who knows.

By coming up with that sort of rubbish you really are lowering the standard of debate.

Mick

 

[Brian]

Brian

If you are going to cop out by doing a google, at least have the decency not to insult everyones intelligence.

The two articles you quoted do not stipulate any figures or even give a reason why he is authorising the contracts. Posiibly the commitment was made by the previous government, who knows.

By coming up with that sort of rubbish you really are lowering the standard of debate.

Mick

Kind of ironic given your constant insults. It would be good if you could cut out the insults.

Anyway, try reading the articles. You said gideon is anti PFI. Well it appears so but only when in opposition.

 

[Mick P]

Kind of ironic given your constant insults. It would be good if you could cut out the insults.

Anyway, try reading the articles. You said gideon is anti PFI. Well it appears so but only when in opposition.

Brian

I have read the articles and they are useless, there are no meaningful figures and neither are there any reasons why he signed the contracts.

This is just insufficient information to draw a conclusion from.

Sorry but that was tripe and you know it.

Mick

 

[Brian]

Brian

I have read the articles and they are useless, there are no meaningful figures and neither are there any reasons why he signed the contracts.

This is just insufficient information to draw a conclusion from.

Sorry but that was tripe and you know it.

Mick

Not at all. There is plenty there to show gideon was against PFI in opposition but not so much when given some responsibility. If you can't see it that's fine by me.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

Not one political party is seeking to wrap up the NHS. What is quite correctly happening is that some services are being put out to tender and will pass to the private sector, only if it advantageous to do so. These tenders are covered and strictly monitored under the EU procurement process and quarterly statements on cost and performance are used to monitor the agreements that can be used to terminate a badly run contract. There are rarely job losses because most of the front line staff are TUPED.

The totally stupid statement used by a few resident morons that the services are diverted by the Tories to their mates must be the daftest ever. Most PFI and management facility companies are owned by pension funds.



Regards

Mick

Spot on Mick. I'll point out that the NHS Trusts are tendering along with private companies for clinical services contracts. All parties have to demonstrate that they can comply with the terms of the contract, provide value for money, and are prepared to be scrutinised and monitored during its course. The contracts will have a fixed term, which helps to ensure that others have the opportunity to enter the market.

NHS teams are becoming more competitive and therefore more likely to win these contracts, and jolly good luck to them.

 

[Brian]

Spot on Mick. I'll point out that the NHS Trusts are tendering along with private companies for clinical services contracts. All parties have to demonstrate that they can comply with the terms of the contract, provide value for money, and are prepared to be scrutinised and monitored during its course. The contracts will have a fixed term, which helps to ensure that others have the opportunity to enter the market.

NHS teams are becoming more competitive and therefore more likely to win these contracts, and jolly good luck to them.

Tony,

How do they demonstrate value for money? That sounds a bit fluffy and open to interpretation.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

It's about what added value they can bring to the service. It could be particular expertise, a superior I.T. System, specialist training, etc. etc. The objective is to develop the service. Nothing at all wooly about it, but it's up to evaluation panel how they weigh the priorities.

 

[Brian]

It's about what added value they can bring to the service. It could be particular expertise, a superior I.T. System, specialist training, etc. etc. The objective is to develop the service. Nothing at all wooly about it, but it's up to evaluation panel how they weigh the priorities.

Can you give any examples in the NHS of the priorities applied by an evaluation panel for a contract to provide clinical services, which having been awarded, it was later demonstrated that improved value for money was actually achieved and meeting which priorities?

 

[Suffolk Tony]

Can you give any examples in the NHS of the priorities applied by an evaluation panel for a contract to provide clinical services, which having been awarded, it was later demonstrated that improved value for money was actually achieved and meeting which priorities?

Yes Brian, I could give you ones I've been involved in, but not for posting on a hi-fi forum. You'll just have to take my word for it.

 

[Brian]

Yes Brian, I could give you ones I've been involved in, but not for posting on a hi-fi forum. You'll just have to take my word for it.

It was a serious question, I'm interested in the facts but in light of not having any I will have to remain undecided about it. Better value for money based on variable priorities IS fluffy and also subjective.

ps Still waiting on a couple of the tories to offer their wisdom on what they would have done to fix the debacle of the previous tory govt, since they're critical of what labour did.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

If I gave you concrete examples, you'd still be obliged to take my word for it. I'm not sure what you're proposing as an alternative, but the Labour government supported this system because they saw the advantages.
Edit - if you're interested in the tendering process, look at tendersdirect.co.uk which will give you an idea of the scope.

 

[Brian]

If I gave you concrete examples, you'd still be obliged to take my word for it. I'm not sure what you're proposing as an alternative, but the Labour government supported this system because they saw the advantages.
Edit - if you're interested in the tendering process, look at tendersdirect.co.uk which will give you an idea of the scope.

I'm not suggesting an alternative, I think Labour did what had to be done given the state of things left by the previous govt of nearly 2 decades. Others are critical and I've asked them what they would have done but they don't have an answer.

I'll look at the link tomorrow, thanks for that. I'm curious at the value for money aspect and the priorities because it seems to me that what is deemed good value to one may not be good value to another. An interest in the priorities used seems a no brainer. I would like to know more about that.

 

[jackbarron]

Tony,

How do they demonstrate value for money? That sounds a bit fluffy and open to interpretation.

If they are a private company, like the Alliance Medical Group, it looks like they don't necessarily need to.

Alliance have got Sir Malcolm 'cash for access' Rikind as a director. They recently got a contract worth £80 Million, despite the fact that they planned to charge £7 Million more than the NHS groups vying for the contract.

The contract deals wit Stoke NHS hospital scanning. You can read about it here.

Jack

 

[Suffolk Tony]

If they are a private company, like the Alliance Medical Group, it looks like they don't necessarily need to.

Alliance have got Sir Malcolm 'cash for access' Rikind as a director. They recently got a contract worth £80 Million, despite the fact that they planned to charge £7 Million more than the NHS groups vying for the contract.

The contract deals wit Stoke NHS hospital scanning. You can read about it here.

Jack

Some issues here; all bidding processes for NHS contracts are secret. The article doesn't say why Alliance Medical Group won the contract over the NHS bid, or what the criteria were for complying with the terms of the contract. Basically, it's another political rant. The price will only form a small part of the evaluation process.