camverton
pfm Member
“Locked down”? Hope you’re OK.
Active speakers - Kii Audio, Dutch & Dutch...
- Thread starter ste71
- Start date
Thanks, yes I’m fine, but I’m in North Italy and things are getting grim. 196 dead just today. A couple of weeks ago it was 2. Hospitals overloaded. Everyone in the whole country has been told to stay home except for work and shopping and to minimize contact. It’s coming your way. Take care!
You can’t have it both ways Keith. Either a speaker had a cardioid response or it has the same FR on and off axis. You need to work on your patter.
Roger Adams
pfm Member
Andy, it's the old conundrum for me. Do you want to hear the instruments in the location or do you want the instruments to sound incredibly realistic as if they are in your living room.
On the other subject, they were saying the Italian figures are mainly down to the fact that it has the largest number of old people on the planet. Stay safe.
On the other subject, they were saying the Italian figures are mainly down to the fact that it has the largest number of old people on the planet. Stay safe.
Strictly Stereo
Trade: Strictly Stereo
If size is your thing then I would point out that a Dutch & Dutch 8c has slightly more driver surface area than an SCM100 and a radiation pattern equivalent to a much, much larger conventional speaker.
Roger Adams
pfm Member
Yes but it crosses over at 100hz. It's like comparing chalk and cheese I'm afraid (although the cross over to the tweeter is admirable). A nice speaker I imagine if you are heavily limited for space. Do they need free space though?
SCM100 is too small for me. As are my 50's. I just cannot afford what I would like. Nor do I have an understanding partner prepared to allow additional furniture
SCM100 is too small for me. As are my 50's. I just cannot afford what I would like. Nor do I have an understanding partner prepared to allow additional furniture
Strictly Stereo
Trade: Strictly Stereo
You can run them in free space or as little as 10cm from the front wall.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
You make a very good case for buying MBL speakers, surprising given that you don’t sell them!
Bang&Olufsen succinctly explain omnidirectional response,
‘These three scenarios illustrate the primary listening modes that the BeoLab 90 can deliver. We’ll call the first one active listening – since your primary activity is to listen to the recording. We’ll call the second one passive listening, since, in this case, listening to music is secondary to another activity (in our example, reading) in a stationary listening position or area. We’ll call the third case background music.’
Keith
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Is that a joke or do you really not understand the difference?
Keith
darrenyeats
pfm Member
Cabinet volume is also a factor - in fact that's what the 100 means. As I'm sure you know.
I know nothing. If a speaker has the same FR on and off axis does it have a front or a back? Can you point it at the side wall and it sounds the same as if you point it at you? Isn’t that what cambvertons MBLs do? But they aren’t cardioid.
Roger Adams
pfm Member
You see, I personally, want to be convinced that there are real musicians, playing real instruments, in my living room. That, after all, is what a mastering engineer is usually trying to maximise.
The ideal bass roll off of the loudspeaker will be decided by the room - I guess that's why ATC offer the three models with various bottom ends. What they can say is that it's a loudspeaker that many a mastering engineer, will have used as his or her mains/midfields.
He or she is mastering for domestic acoustics. They are assuming that the results they get will more closely resemble those that the listener will enjoy. I think it's presumptuous at best to try to second guess the engineer by removing room interaction. That is not something the engineer would have envisaged.
The acoustic of my living room is familiar to me - I certainly think that and I want the music to sound as if it is in the same acoustic/room as I am (this may be different with orchestral works). I find with that, I get such accurate timbre that I am often forced to look up or look around as I am convinced there is an acoustic guitar or a snare drum in the living room. That is what I aim for. That is very different to what a recording engineer is.
They want to hear the level of each track that they are mixing. They have no domestic settings in the recording studio or the recording booth. They want to hear everything in the right space and time. It is later that another engineer, in a very different acoustic, add realistic tonality IMHO and it is THAT which is important to me - not being placed in a fairly dull sounding recording studio (again different for a classical music lover). That tonality is natural to the room. It is natural when I speak to friends sat next to me on the sofa.
Those are my aims and, as I say, they are personal and I do not listen to orchestral music. Each to their own. There is no right or wrong path there - it depends on the listener's personal goals, and which design gives them the most musical pleasure with familiar tracks over a period of time.
The ideal bass roll off of the loudspeaker will be decided by the room - I guess that's why ATC offer the three models with various bottom ends. What they can say is that it's a loudspeaker that many a mastering engineer, will have used as his or her mains/midfields.
He or she is mastering for domestic acoustics. They are assuming that the results they get will more closely resemble those that the listener will enjoy. I think it's presumptuous at best to try to second guess the engineer by removing room interaction. That is not something the engineer would have envisaged.
The acoustic of my living room is familiar to me - I certainly think that and I want the music to sound as if it is in the same acoustic/room as I am (this may be different with orchestral works). I find with that, I get such accurate timbre that I am often forced to look up or look around as I am convinced there is an acoustic guitar or a snare drum in the living room. That is what I aim for. That is very different to what a recording engineer is.
They want to hear the level of each track that they are mixing. They have no domestic settings in the recording studio or the recording booth. They want to hear everything in the right space and time. It is later that another engineer, in a very different acoustic, add realistic tonality IMHO and it is THAT which is important to me - not being placed in a fairly dull sounding recording studio (again different for a classical music lover). That tonality is natural to the room. It is natural when I speak to friends sat next to me on the sofa.
Those are my aims and, as I say, they are personal and I do not listen to orchestral music. Each to their own. There is no right or wrong path there - it depends on the listener's personal goals, and which design gives them the most musical pleasure with familiar tracks over a period of time.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Where the bass rolls off is chosen by the loudspeakers designer, traditionally that meant a large box if you wanted full -range 20-20kHz .
The engineer will have no idea what your room will be like they can only ensure that the frequency response they hear is as flat as possible.
The room is completely in control of the sound you hear, certainly below a few hundred hertz.
The artist/studio engineers create the sound, we can only aim to reproduce that file as accurately as possible.
Keith
The engineer will have no idea what your room will be like they can only ensure that the frequency response they hear is as flat as possible.
The room is completely in control of the sound you hear, certainly below a few hundred hertz.
The artist/studio engineers create the sound, we can only aim to reproduce that file as accurately as possible.
Keith
camverton
pfm Member
Anyone who has heard an MBL radiostrahler speaker will know you are just being ridiculous or, if one one is being generous, clutching at straws. I’ve not heard the Beolab 70s but did hear the 50s; rather disappointing to my ears. I wouldn’t use their implication or explanation as an example of what an omnidirectional speaker can achieve in terms of realism and, indeed, imaging. I know you claim to have heard MBL speakers at Munich but as we all know, shows are not the best place to appreciate the real strengths of a product. I know of three owners of MBL speakers on this forum, have you heard their setups in their domestic setting? If you had you might stop being so silly about what you don’t sell in a thinly disguised attempt to shill and troll what you do - or maybe not!
Musicraft
Trade: Musicraft
Really? I’ve found there’s a bigger difference moving from SCM50’s to SCM100’s then moving from SCM100’s to SCM150’s. Hence why between the three we chose SCM100ASL Professional monitors as our demo pair.
Our of interest have you heard the SCM100ASL’s please?
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Well put.
Roger Adams
pfm Member
Keith, It's quite clear that you are a dealer selling audio equipment rather than being involved in the latter stages of music production. Good luck - I hope it works out well. You seem very enthusiastic which is one hell of a good start
You seem to be confusing recording engineers with mastering engineers however - a common mistake to be fair.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Roger if you would like to learn more about loudspeaker design and what constitutes high quality reproduction , I can thoroughly recommend Floyd Toole’s ‘Sound Reproduction’.
Keith
Keith
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
That does sound grim. My guess is the same thing will happen in London and the austerity enfeebled medical services won't be able to cope
Jack