Indeed. I took the simplistic view thinking that the vast majority on here wouldn't be using a differential amplifier. I heard a few of Allen's designs over the years, including at a few Hi-Fi Shows. Let's just say the sound wasn't for me.
Absolute Polarity - Anyone else can hear a significant difference?
- Thread starter tuga
- Start date
Indeed. I took the simplistic view thinking that the vast majority on here wouldn't be using a differential amplifier. I heard a few of Allen's designs over the years, including at a few Hi-Fi Shows. Let's just say the sound wasn't for me.
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
Having had both CDPs and DACs that can invert at the touch of a button, I gave up trying - even within the same track of electronica music for instance, playing with phase improves some areas, but not others. I don’t think absolute phase is really considered in the studio when mixing multiple sources. All IMHO opinion of course.
tuga
Legal Alien
I don't listen to electronic music but with classical I find that in almost all recordings there's a "right" polarity.
Tony L
Administrator
Have you ever tried to go the extra step and see if your preference corresponds to a positive or negative initial transient, i.e. really study a drum hit or whatever in a waveform editor?
PS Assuming your system is in absolute phase is a minefield in itself. I have absolutely no idea with either of mine. Honestly not a clue. I know the Quad 303 phase inverts (correct phase in a Quad system with a Quad pre which also inverts). I have no idea about the Verdier pre, my DPA DAC etc. Same upstairs; I’ve no idea about the Marantz SACD and Leak amps. The passive pre will obviously be correct, and I guess the LS3/5As phase invert the tweeter as most box speakers seem to in order to attain the best compromise across the crossover region.
Are there recordings with information on polarity in the release notes or credits?
tuga
Legal Alien
Are you able to invert the polarity of your plugs?
If I have some free time I’ll install Audacity this weekend and have a look.
tuga
Legal Alien
Not that I know of, only the list I posted earlier.
Tony L
Administrator
Yes, and I have the main system wired red to black as I know for sure the 303 inverts. I did play about years ago, I found it impossible to form a consistent opinion. The majority of my music collection is rock, jazz, electronica etc, there is no ‘absolute phase’ with this sort of stuff.
tuga
Legal Alien
That makes sense to me. With jazz and rock I find the differences more dificult to determine, particularly with the latter, also when there are audible differences I often strugle to determine which sounds more "correct"...
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Agree with this. Though I would also point out that lots of classical recordings have outriggers and spot mics supplementing the main stereo pair - here's a Decca channel list from 1971.
Tony L
Administrator
Here’s an interesting one. It is a 1978 Yamaha SC1200 and it has three little pickup-selecting switches, each one selects between ‘in phase’/‘off’/‘reversed phase’. This is obviously to give a remarkably wide range of combinations and sounds, but it shows how arbitrary a lot of this discussion is. The three oscillator Moog Voyager synth sitting in the other room is obviously vastly more complex again. Phase accurate to what?
PS I think my grand piano example upthread is actually the best. I understand how a piano works. Everyone does. I understand how microphones work. I have no idea how you’d frame an absolute phase argument in regard to that instrument. Genuinely not a clue. Obviously you’d want any mics used to be in phase with one another, and that may involve positioning as well as just electrical testing, but when one starts considering how the air is being energised by this instrument it get crazy complex real fast. I’d go as far as suggesting there is no absolute phase in this situation.
Graham,
I would be fascinated to know which aspects of the sound of Allen's designs didn't suit you.
Alex
This thread is almost identical to the "which record company used what EQ when the record was cut" debate. The reality is that without any written evidence it is just pure speculation, or personal preference what EQ you prefer, or in this case, what polarity you prefer the sound of. As has been said earlier "life is too short to worry about such things"...
Colin L
High-tech low-life
For some on the forum it seems arguing about measurement, tests and specifications of audio equipment IS their life.
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Absolute phase matters only if the ship is in an “out phase” condition as it were. If that happens, reverse field will achieve closure, but — and this is very important — only if M Seven factor is maintained.
Mr Spock and Scotty illustrate this in a real-world scenario. Note: This is not hypothetical.
Joe
Mr Spock and Scotty illustrate this in a real-world scenario. Note: This is not hypothetical.
Joe
herb
brain's right hemisphere
Back in the day some companies deliberately recorded classical 180 out of phase because it added depth. Most non classical music is in phase apart from Miles Columbia and some Mike Westbrook. This with LPs of the time, nothing to do with CDs.
Phase is more apparent with blown instruments rather than violins, drums etc.