A&R A60
- Thread starter bob atherton
- Start date
martin clark
pinko bodger
Yes! It's very easy, and invaluable for making trivial all sorts of problems that otherwise might look like 'the end of the line'
There are plenty of good 'how to solder' instructions/videos on the 'net, and once you've got comfortable with the idea, don't overlook the fact that there is plenty of helpful material on this site already, like this:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11241
and all these:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21&order=desc&page=2
There are plenty of good 'how to solder' instructions/videos on the 'net, and once you've got comfortable with the idea, don't overlook the fact that there is plenty of helpful material on this site already, like this:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11241
and all these:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21&order=desc&page=2
archfield1
Member
Well after a long hiatus I've managed to construct a link/loopback plug for the A60 AP and it is now playing sweetly away. Just like it was never in someones junk heap for the last 10 years! This is going to give me much pleasure.
However the SA60 I also picked up at the same time is in not such good condition. Apart from the blown main caps it looks like someone has physically cut off two of the transistors and all the fuses were blown.
I can't believe that the removal of these transistors was a factory mod as they've been hacked off - see the pic!
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp101/archman1/DSCF2449.jpg
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Has anyone got a working SA60 that they can show me a photo of the internals?
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Finally this must have been sitting around the factory for years as they married a 1985 A60 with a 1981 SA60. Obviously not much call for active crossover systems!
Cheers
Steve
Radfordman
pfm Member
Brilliant that A60 is working well.
The SA 60 does not look too bad, the capacitors don't seem to have leaked on to the circuit board. Power transistors probably cut out to test out of circuit and with the intention to replace them.
If you are going to get the SA60 going (shame if you don't) useful advice will probably be offered here.
The SA 60 does not look too bad, the capacitors don't seem to have leaked on to the circuit board. Power transistors probably cut out to test out of circuit and with the intention to replace them.
If you are going to get the SA60 going (shame if you don't) useful advice will probably be offered here.
archfield1
Member
Just a quick query on the 10000uf caps replacement. Following your guide...
"Large capacity reservoir capacitors can be expensive with 10000uf types often costing £12+ each. In this instance we are going to use the Vishay 056 PSM SI long life part at £6 each and bypass with a Panasonic 330uf FC. Because the Vishay parts are shorter than the original LCR capacitors we can use the original solder point on the pcb for the new Panasonic caps and connect the Vishay to the previously concealed points as shown here - fig 4."
Being not very up on analog electronics (thats computers for you!) can you explain the logic behind adding the bypass caps.
Also was looking for the Vishay caps on the Farnell website and couldn't find them do you know any suppliers?
I have a pair off mission 752s knocking around that are very easy to modify (with minimum damage) so that the crossover is bypassed. They are going to be my active speaker experiment!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Bargain basement listening so far!
Sony CD player (rubbish but it works!) - £2
Ariston Q-deck (better than I expected) - £10
Wharfdale Glendale 3 (mint condition) - £10
A60 and SA60 (getting there) - £5
What a lot of fun this is on a rainy day!
Steve
"Large capacity reservoir capacitors can be expensive with 10000uf types often costing £12+ each. In this instance we are going to use the Vishay 056 PSM SI long life part at £6 each and bypass with a Panasonic 330uf FC. Because the Vishay parts are shorter than the original LCR capacitors we can use the original solder point on the pcb for the new Panasonic caps and connect the Vishay to the previously concealed points as shown here - fig 4."
Being not very up on analog electronics (thats computers for you!) can you explain the logic behind adding the bypass caps.
Also was looking for the Vishay caps on the Farnell website and couldn't find them do you know any suppliers?
I have a pair off mission 752s knocking around that are very easy to modify (with minimum damage) so that the crossover is bypassed. They are going to be my active speaker experiment!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Bargain basement listening so far!
Sony CD player (rubbish but it works!) - £2
Ariston Q-deck (better than I expected) - £10
Wharfdale Glendale 3 (mint condition) - £10
A60 and SA60 (getting there) - £5
What a lot of fun this is on a rainy day!
Steve
Radfordman
pfm Member
These are my thoughts on bypass capacitors, I am sure that if I am wrong someone will correct me. Better explanations will probably follow.
Electrolytic capacitors are far from perfect devices with undesirable extras like resistance/ electrical leakage built in. Non electrolytic capacitors are much better, but a 10,000uF non electrolytic would probably be physically very very large and very costly. So a compromise can be reached by paralleling a small non electrolytic with the main electrolytic capacitor.
There are usually quite a lot of capacitors on e bay. I have bought good ones for several of my Quad 303's.
P.S. That is the cheapest A60 I have heard of. Though one of mine was cheap at £15.
Electrolytic capacitors are far from perfect devices with undesirable extras like resistance/ electrical leakage built in. Non electrolytic capacitors are much better, but a 10,000uF non electrolytic would probably be physically very very large and very costly. So a compromise can be reached by paralleling a small non electrolytic with the main electrolytic capacitor.
There are usually quite a lot of capacitors on e bay. I have bought good ones for several of my Quad 303's.
P.S. That is the cheapest A60 I have heard of. Though one of mine was cheap at £15.
bob atherton
pfm Member
As OP on this thread I thought I might just report back about my A60 after a few months of sterling service at my office.
I just can't fault it, it is the very best £58 on audio that I have ever spent. It is not far off the quality of sound of my 72, Teddycap III, Avondale S100. It sounds so good that I don't want to open it up and replace things at the moment, but come about January and I might just sneek a look.
Anyone thinking of putting together a budget/classic system need look no further. Thanks to everyone who steered me towards this great amp.
I just can't fault it, it is the very best £58 on audio that I have ever spent. It is not far off the quality of sound of my 72, Teddycap III, Avondale S100. It sounds so good that I don't want to open it up and replace things at the moment, but come about January and I might just sneek a look.
Anyone thinking of putting together a budget/classic system need look no further. Thanks to everyone who steered me towards this great amp.
neiljadman
Senior Member
Yep - while they are good amps in their own right it does make me wonder why people spend 5 times that for a NAIT which is no better.
rontoolsie
pfm Member
The A60 was and probably still is a very formidable unit, that is quite capable of providing high quality amplification, even by todays standards. However, it doesn't compare with Naim's entry level separates of the same vintage. I took my A60E over to Doug Bradys, Liverpool back in 1982 to compare with the 42/110. Speakers used were the Heybrook HB1s ISTR. Source was LP12/Ittok/something.
First LP up was Elkie Brooks, Shooting Star. Track was 'Always' that starts off slow and then segues with an out-of-nowhere percussive snap. On the A60 this was fun. But on the 42/110, the dynamics were so hugely improved, that all in the room blinked their eyes and physically recoiled backwards. I vividly remember this moment. And then it was very obvious that the flow of music and the sheer textures of instruments were an in entirely different league. The few other LPs I brought with me showed the same degree of superiority of the Naim combo. But at the time the 42/110 was circa 450UKP vs the A60s 120 UKP in pricing. Needless to say I bought the 42/110 that very day and used up my entire semesters worth of discretionary and non-discretionary income.
So I find it a little suprising that the A60 comes close to a 72/External PS/S100.
Having said that I sold my A60E to a friend of mine (who was also at that demo, and purchased the round Systemdek II/Basik LVX TT that we all preferred to a Planar3 in a side by side demo), who had the slightly scratchy volume pot replaced under warranty-even though it was 4 years old, and reported a large improvement in sound. So who knows what a fully spec'd A60 would have sounded like next to the 42/110? When my A60 was almost brand new however, an audiophile friend lent me his 32/160 for an afternoon, and I was almost physically shocked how vastly better it was over the A60. So much so, that I only had the nerve to play about 3 LPs as I felt I was having a guilty voyeuristic insight into music that I thought I knew so well. 'Even in the Quietest Moments' was the first LP I cued up and the body of the piano, the birdie chirps and shrill voice of the lead singer was so realistically conveyed in an almost spooky fashion that I knew at that time (1978) that one day I would just have to be a Naim user myself.
I ended up buying the A60 (also in 1978) somewhat before it was the darling of the British press. Instead I did a comparitive demo at Billy Vee's of this relatively unheard of model with the one integrated amp that was very highly regarded, the JVC JAS-11G, and happily spent the extra 20-30 quid on what the A60 had to offer over it.
First LP up was Elkie Brooks, Shooting Star. Track was 'Always' that starts off slow and then segues with an out-of-nowhere percussive snap. On the A60 this was fun. But on the 42/110, the dynamics were so hugely improved, that all in the room blinked their eyes and physically recoiled backwards. I vividly remember this moment. And then it was very obvious that the flow of music and the sheer textures of instruments were an in entirely different league. The few other LPs I brought with me showed the same degree of superiority of the Naim combo. But at the time the 42/110 was circa 450UKP vs the A60s 120 UKP in pricing. Needless to say I bought the 42/110 that very day and used up my entire semesters worth of discretionary and non-discretionary income.
So I find it a little suprising that the A60 comes close to a 72/External PS/S100.
Having said that I sold my A60E to a friend of mine (who was also at that demo, and purchased the round Systemdek II/Basik LVX TT that we all preferred to a Planar3 in a side by side demo), who had the slightly scratchy volume pot replaced under warranty-even though it was 4 years old, and reported a large improvement in sound. So who knows what a fully spec'd A60 would have sounded like next to the 42/110? When my A60 was almost brand new however, an audiophile friend lent me his 32/160 for an afternoon, and I was almost physically shocked how vastly better it was over the A60. So much so, that I only had the nerve to play about 3 LPs as I felt I was having a guilty voyeuristic insight into music that I thought I knew so well. 'Even in the Quietest Moments' was the first LP I cued up and the body of the piano, the birdie chirps and shrill voice of the lead singer was so realistically conveyed in an almost spooky fashion that I knew at that time (1978) that one day I would just have to be a Naim user myself.
I ended up buying the A60 (also in 1978) somewhat before it was the darling of the British press. Instead I did a comparitive demo at Billy Vee's of this relatively unheard of model with the one integrated amp that was very highly regarded, the JVC JAS-11G, and happily spent the extra 20-30 quid on what the A60 had to offer over it.
Robert
Tapehead
In this instance we are using the Panasonic FC on bypass as these have very low ESR and are excellent for PSU duties. The use of fairly large capacity bypass caps such as these should reduce ripple on the supply lines.
Effectively, the large Vishays are the DC storage tank and the FCs are some additional filtering.
You probably don't need the FCs as this solution is a bit belt and braces, but the cost is minimal.
RS sell the Vishays.
bob atherton
pfm Member
Ron, I guess what I meant was in terms of musical enjoyment, I think the A60 is not that far away from the big amps.
I think they both represent excelent VFM and have no regrets in buying either. The big amp of course resolves a lot more detail and has a blacker background etc, but for doing the job that it does at my studio, playing music that is pretty much in the background most of the time, I don't think the big amp would be worth the extra. Also at work it has an easy time driving my Rega ELA 1.5's where the big amp at home has to cope with quite tricky IBL's. I think if I put the A60 driving the IBL's things may not be quite so close
gary yeowell
pfm Member
As an 18 year old (27 years ago) i fondly remember counting the days down at Christmas till i got my brand new A&R A60 in black, what a present from my parents! to go with my Rega Planar 3 and Acoustic Research AR18's. The finish and feel of that amp stays with me today, and the sound was effortless relaxed and so tuneful, a real classic of the time.
Enjoy Bob.
Enjoy Bob.
gary yeowell
pfm Member
Strange you should mention the integrated thing driving IBL's Bob..... I am presently trying a new Nait5i-2 into my IBL's in the office instead of the 62/Flatcap 2/140. So far it's not bad (it's new out of the box) but the IBL's seem to like the older stuff more i think, i will let the Nait run in a bit but i think i may look in to another 140 and a 72 and try active, what do you think?
Cheers,
Gary.
Cheers,
Gary.
Radfordman
pfm Member
I like my A60's but my Radford STA25 III beats them fairly easily, still, that's not fair, it beats all my other stuff (and that's a lot). My Williamson beats the Radford, shame only got one of them, need two for stereo.
bob atherton
pfm Member
Gary, I've had IBL's both active and passive for about ten years now so I guess I have the measure of them fairly well. To be honest after all these years I still have a love/hate relationship with them!
My recent set up was 72, Teddycap III, 180 with CDX, Teddy XPS and LP12 at the front. This system worked fine and IMHO is just about the starting point to make IBL's work their majic. For a brief while I tried an Avondaled 140 in place of the 180 and although some of the Avondale sound (which I like) was there it really didn't have the balls to drive the speakers. Back went in the 180 and although a bit rough around the edges it sounded better for it. I have now got and Avondale S100 and have the best of both worlds
I would have thought that keeping the 62, selling the Flatcap and put that money towards a 160 or 180 and use without P/S would be a good move with the IBL's. Then if funds alowed and the upgrading bug was still there get a P/S and maybe then try a 72. I don't think that active before 250 or S100 level would be good VFM, though there have been, by all accounts, some stonking 2 x 140 active systems out there.
Oh, and of course, don't get rid of the IBL's...
gary yeowell
pfm Member
Thanks for that Bob! I may well look for a 160 (one of my all time favourite amps)
Don't worry i won't be selling the IBL's Bob, i had Kans for 20 years and wish i'd never sold them, and the IBL's are just like them in many ways. I do have a pair of Mk2's on their way to me be however and may or may not move the pair which i like the least in my particular room.
ATB
Gary.
Don't worry i won't be selling the IBL's Bob, i had Kans for 20 years and wish i'd never sold them, and the IBL's are just like them in many ways. I do have a pair of Mk2's on their way to me be however and may or may not move the pair which i like the least in my particular room.
ATB
Gary.
Mignun
pfm Member
I recently couldn't resist picking up a very nice, boxed, early example of an A60. It's actually an A60E. I'm not sure whather this means it's some sort of "enhanced" variant, but looking inside, the board layout has many detail differences with others on this thread. The phono stage looks fully discreet and there's also an interesting little daughterboard with what looks like loading switches onboard - not sure I've seen this before.
Anyway, I connected it up in place of a NAC62/NAP90 driving some MA R252s (nice visual match - the veneers are so close - did MA do the A60 cover??) in the office and didn't expect much, to be honest. What I got was quite a surprise. It was really rather lovely. Softer than the Naim, certainly, but very fluid too, warm without stepping over to being wooly. Everything works at it should, with no undue noises from pots etc.. great!
I think I'm just going to replace the main caps and leave it as is. Lovely old thing...
Anyway, I connected it up in place of a NAC62/NAP90 driving some MA R252s (nice visual match - the veneers are so close - did MA do the A60 cover??) in the office and didn't expect much, to be honest. What I got was quite a surprise. It was really rather lovely. Softer than the Naim, certainly, but very fluid too, warm without stepping over to being wooly. Everything works at it should, with no undue noises from pots etc.. great!
I think I'm just going to replace the main caps and leave it as is. Lovely old thing...
