7 Year Old Car - Flog or Keep?

[Darren]

I own an 18 year old van and an 18 year old volvo. Both are worth nothing. Both cost me a few hundred quid a year to keep on the road. I like my money invested or shared with loved ones.
I'm also very sentimental. Gosh, that van and I have had some adventures. I've promised she can stay until she's twenty or so.
I'd run that Toyota until the wheels fall off and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[RJohan]

Can't be arsed to test a newer car - all that salesman nonsense - so I'll be keeping the RAV for another year or 2.

And if you buy a newer one it can very well show up problems that you have to deal with. One of the most common causes for trading in a car is, of course, something's wrong with it.

 

[RJohan]

I own an 18 year old van and an 18 year old volvo. Both are worth nothing. Both cost me a few hundred quid a year to keep on the road. I like my money invested or shared with loved ones.
I'm also very sentimental. Gosh, that van and I have had some adventures. I've promised she can stay until she's twenty or so.
I'd run that Toyota until the wheels fall off and laugh all the way to the bank.

My Boxzster is 18 years,.Sadly, I don't get away with a few hundreds a year...

 

[PaulMB]

Went to a BMW dealer recently to see about a replacement for my E39 528i and came away with the impression that they do not want to sell you what you want, but what they want.
Asked for a 6 cylinder engine, bu they are all twin-turbos rated about 400 HP, which is far too much.
Asked for manual gearbox, they looked annoyed and said "No, only automatic."
Asked for RWD and they said "No, only X-Drive," which is 4WD.
I asked how long I'd have to wait, the salesman exchanged a shifty look with another guy and said "7 months," which I don't believe.
All this for a price of about 80,000 Euro, for which I would have thought you could get what you want. Apparently not

 

[topmetom]

Cars today are so overpriced, and as for insurance!

 

[PaulMB]

Overpriced probably because of all the useless gadgets they contain. A friend has a relatively new Toyota Rav4. The two electric motors that open and close the "boot" door packed in. Replacements cost over 1,000 euro. He asked if he can open and shut the door by hand, they said "No. It is designed to be electric and won't work manually. Besides, the car's computer will sense that something is wrong."
Is it really that useful to have an electric back door?
Or electric adjustment of seats?
My 1987 Carrera has electric seat adjustment, while the 1999 BMW has mechanical. I adjust both with the same ease and precision.

 

[Richard Lines]

Feel good now because I remind myself that an old car is a greener car.

As per the graphic I have posted on this forum twice now this may not be the case as the continued emissions from burning FF in an ICE are quite significant so there is a 'breakover' point.

Regards

Richard

 

[gintonic]

Is it really that useful to have an electric back door?

IME very useful - although not necessarily essential. For my wife who is not very tall, an electrically operated tail gate was very useful as she couldn't reach the handle to close very easily

Or electric adjustment of seats?

Targa had manually (forward and backward only) operated seats. I missed the precision and ease of adjustment that electrically adjustments gave me.

992 has electrically adjusted seats and they are a dream - an essential i would say for me.

 

[Ponty]

Overpriced probably because of all the useless gadgets they contain. A friend has a relatively new Toyota Rav4. The two electric motors that open and close the "boot" door packed in. Replacements cost over 1,000 euro. He asked if he can open and shut the door by hand, they said "No. It is designed to be electric and won't work manually. Besides, the car's computer will sense that something is wrong."
Is it really that useful to have an electric back door?
Or electric adjustment of seats?
My 1987 Carrera has electric seat adjustment, while the 1999 BMW has mechanical. I adjust both with the same ease and precision.

It’s a symptom of the change in ownership model and cycle, which manufacturers love. Many don’t run their cars outside of manufacturers warranty, they’re not interested that a car should give 20 years + of good, reliable service. Many don’t see beyond 3 years. I’d have thought it’s not so much blown engines which scrap cars these days, it‘s electronic faults.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

It’s a symptom of the change in ownership model and cycle, which manufacturers love. Many don’t run their cars outside of manufacturers warranty, they’re not interested that a car should give 20 years + of good, reliable service. Many don’t see beyond 3 years. I’d have thought it’s not so much blown engines which scrap cars these days, it‘s electronic faults.

It’s easy to have a downer on the manufacturers, but many have struggled to even survive over the years. There are plenty of 20+ year old cars for sale on Autotrader, and most new cars today will, if reasonably well cared for, see their 20th birthdays (changes in legislation excepted).
There are features in my car that I detest, but they’re more than made up for by the good things.

PS. I wouldn’t want to be tooling around in a 20 year old Astra. Saggy seats, faded paint, weakened body shell, rust, worn carpets, dull headlight lenses, etc etc. most could be sorted, but you’d spend a fair old wedge, and it’d still be a 20 year old Astra.

 

[Ponty]

It’s easy to have a downer on the manufacturers, but many have struggled to even survive over the years. There are plenty of 20+ year old cars for sale on Autotrader, and most new cars today will, if reasonably well cared for, see their 20th birthdays (changes in legislation excepted).
There are features in my car that I detest, but they’re more than made up for by the good things.

PS. I wouldn’t want to be tooling around in a 20 year old Astra. Saggy seats, faded paint, weakened body shell, rust, worn carpets, dull headlight lenses, etc etc. most could be sorted, but you’d spend a fair old wedge, and it’d still be a 20 year old Astra.

Yes, I agree that some of the tech is great. I love adaptive cruise, the OH won’t be without it now. Can you imagine trying to fix that on a 10 year old car, a failure could likely write it off.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Yes, I agree that some of the tech is great. I love adaptive cruise, the OH won’t be without it now. Can you imagine trying to fix that on a 10 year old car, a failure could likely write it off.

Well, it’s not something that has to be working, so no, it won’t write the car off. The car will still have value without it. I don’t like adaptive cruise, so give me a shout!

 

[tones]

PS. I wouldn’t want to be tooling around in a 20 year old Astra. Saggy seats, faded paint, weakened body shell, rust, worn carpets, dull headlight lenses, etc etc. most could be sorted, but you’d spend a fair old wedge, and it’d still be a 20 year old Astra.

Interesting that you bring up that particular car and that particular age - an Astra Caravan was our first car in Swizzieland. It was magnificent, carting us and all our camping gear all over Europe. It lasted 20 years and 9 months, covered 346,000Km and never put a foot wrong. In the end, it was one of your mentioned problems, rust, that got it - MFK (Motorfahrzeugkontrolle)-time (Swizzieland's routine car inspection, carried out in specialised testing facilities run by the Basel police) was approaching, and I looked at the rust bubbles on the sills. Repairable? I asked the local Opel dealer. "Jaaaaaaaa....aber..." and then suggested that the repair could cost 10 times what the car was worth. So, as you said, I'd spend a fair old wedge and I'd still have a 20 year-old Astra. We all loved that car - I didn't cry when it was wheeled away for the last time, but it came close.

 

[Ponty]

Well, it’s not something that has to be working, so no, it won’t write the car off. The car will still have value without it. I don’t like adaptive cruise, so give me a shout!

Dashboards lit up like Christmas trees are MOT failures? Is it too much to ask for a high quality car with genuine inherent build quality but minimum gadgets? If I could buy a new Merc W124 today, I would.

 

[stevec67]

. I’d have thought it’s not so much blown engines which scrap cars these days, it‘s electronic faults.

Very few blown engines. I've killed a few:
1992 Cav 2L, actually both I and a mate failed to kill this in over 200k miles. It just turned into a rat with a pile of faults, no one of which was terminal but on a car with 200k miles in 12 years not worth fixing.
1992 Alfa 33, blown engine at 10 years/80k miles (!) An independent garage bought it, fitted another engine, the gearbox failed a month later.
1993 Volvo 440, turned into a rat at 14 years/120k miles, taken to a scrapyard in France when I returned to live in the UK.
1999 Peugeot 406, stolen and recovered at 10 years, 120k miles. BER.
1993 Astra, sold as a runner at 19 years/110k, failed next MoT, BER. Still (just) viable but used cars were cheap back then, and as Tony says a 20 year old Astra is OK when it's costing you nothing and you just drive it about locally, but that's all.
2003 Vectra, turned into a rat at 10 years/120k miles, sold cheap and failed next MoT.
1999 Saab, still running at 90k/14 years when I traded it for:
2003 The Indestructible Mondeo, which did 60k trouble free miles in 4 years, sold as a ratty going concern at 160k miles/12 years.
1999 Mazda MX5, failed MoT, corrosion, at 19 years/100k, and by then sufficiently worn to be no fun to drive.
2007 Jaguar 2L diesel, gearbox bearings failed at 12 years/120k miles and BER. Sold for scrap/repairs
2007 Jaguar 3L diesel auto, corrosion at 200k miles/13 years. Still mechanically sound, sold cheap. These engines fit Land Rovers and are sought after.
2009 Audi A5 3L diesel, still very sound at 14 years/200k miles. Running repairs have been needed, obviously, but no major repairs.

So if there's a theme, it is that after 12-15 years the things get generally ratty and no lonjger worth repairing.

 

[mercalia]

7 years lol I just got rid of my Yamaha XJ900s diversion under the ULEZ scrappage scheme that was 28 years old with 70k miles and still fine. Just I didnt want to pay the £12.50 ULEZ charge

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Dashboards lit up like Christmas trees are MOT failures? Is it too much to ask for a high quality car with genuine inherent build quality but minimum gadgets? If I could buy a new Merc W124 today, I would.

There's just no money in such a car, I suppose. I want a new E39 BMW, but instead of £50k for the cheapest current 5 Series, what could they charge? And while you fit all the required bits such as ABS, ESP, etc, they may as well fit all the common parts... It's annoying!

 

[S-Man]

Went to a BMW dealer recently to see about a replacement for my E39 528i and came away with the impression that they do not want to sell you what you want, but what they want.

BMWs are out of bounds for me. I went into a dealer many years ago to ask for a test drive in a 318i Touring. The a-hole said “we don’t do test drives, we can sell every car we can get”. My superb Lexus iS200 went back to the lease company and it was replaced by a 318i Touring. All the reviews said the BM was the better car.
I was stuck with a shite car for 3 years!
Learnt several lessons there!

Since we’re on a hifi forum… the BMW radio was remarkable for its ability to remove all semblance of a melody from all forms of music!!

 

[gez]

I asked how long I'd have to wait, the salesman exchanged a shifty look with another guy and said "7 months," which I don't believe.

12-18months more like I'd have thought.

 

[wulbert]

Keep it. You know it works, has been serviced and doesn't have any "bugs" that need sorted out.

7 year old car would be "new" for me. Brakes, suspension components, exhausts are just wear items; replace them with high-quality parts when they are done and the new parts will perform like new. A "baggy" feeling old car can be transformed by new bushes, shocks, ball joints, springs & tyres. If the money is burning a hole in your pocket, spend it on practical goodies for your car; shit-hot winter tyres, stainless steel exhaust, heavy duty battery, up-rated shocks, progressive springs, nice tow-ball and bike carrier, proper under-sealing, top-line valeting, uprated ICE etc.

If car manufacturers have been feeling the pinch lately, you can be sure they will have found some new ways to save on the build costs. Let other people find out where the shortcomings with the latest models lie. Don't pay through the nose to do free R&D for car-makers.

The thing that eventually catches up with older cars is rust and ageing plastic/rubber seals, pipes etc. Toyota are one of the best car builders on the planet. There is a school of thought that cars generally declined in build-quality after the mid 1990's but this might just be nostalgia and a love of nice, thick metal doors and bodyshells. I know my 1997 Saab 9000 felt like a much better-made product than anything I drove afterwards, but then nostalgia ain't what it used to be.