advertisement


5-10k ish Speakers

Erm, no problem if they're listening exclusively to compressed music (heavy metal, e.g.) at a modest average level at three meters or less with those 86 dBw (at 1 m) speakers.

But lots of music has very significant dynamic range, and 100 watts won't cut it with 86 dBw efficient speakers at common listening levels and listening distances. A measured crest factor for recorded music of 20 dB is not unusual, and 30 dB is possible with live acoustic music.

A 20 dB crest factor means that the 100 watt amplifier is clipping badly at an 80 dB average listening level at 3 meters into those 86 dBw speakers. A 30 dB crest factor and those speakers need over 2 KW at a 3 meter distance for an 80 dB average.

People listening to little, inefficient speakers often fail to realize just how badly their system is compressing their music, until they hear the full dynamic range properly reproduced on large, efficient speakers.

However, I completely agree that just listing SPL levels for different music types is meaningless. In fact, I'd say that the list Darth Vader posted is nearly inversely correlated with speaker efficiency and power requirements. Rock and heavy metal is heavily compressed, with a crest factor as small as 3 dB, while classical music can approach 30 dB and is hence much more demanding on a system (unless you listen at very low average levels. 25 watts is just enough at a 70 dB average level (which means the quiet bits are significantly lower) with a 20 dB crest factor at 3m with 86 dBw efficient speakers).

Yep.
Also room gain at mid to high frequencies in a normally reverberant living room will be at most +4dB, bottom end is a different story with anything up to 10dB at vlf depending on speaker location- a factor exploited by JBL in their K2/Arrays/4338 studio monitors to make them room friendly.The only loudspeaker that defies the inverse square law afaik is the line array(up to a certain distance at least) due to its cylindrical radiation pattern once the critical distance is reached where it effectively behaves as a point source and the fall of rises from -3dB to -6dB.
 
Yep.
Also room gain at mid to high frequencies in a normally reverberant living room will be at most +4dB, bottom end is a different story with anything up to 10dB at vlf depending on speaker location- a factor exploited by JBL in their K2/Arrays/4338 studio monitors to make them room friendly.The only loudspeaker that defies the inverse square law afaik is the line array(up to a certain distance at least

So can you describe what that sounds like? In the OP's situation? Or anywhere?
 
Assuming no starting velocity, d(istance)=a(cceleration)*t(ime)*t(ime)

Doubling the acceleration reduces the time by a factor of sqrt(2), i.e. by 30 percent.
Of course, s = ut + 1/2a*t^2. That makes the proposition of small woofers even worse then.
 
Take your speakers then hook up a bass synth/guitar to play through them....Then tell me your speakers can do bass.;-)

Presumably these figures relate to live performance?

Few people want to reproduce music in their living rooms at 'live' levels - particularly for the stuff at the higher end. For the few that do, eviction beckons.
Within the confines of a listening room, and given the close listening proximity, such levels can be extremely uncomfortable and even damaging to hearing.

The vast majority of hi-fi buyers on this forum and others will have spent their lives enjoying music played on loudspeakers rated at around 86dBw driven by by amplifiers ranging between 25-100w - with no problem whatsoever.

If you want to squeeze the concert hall into your 14"x20" listening room at truly realistic SPLs then go buy a kW amp or 100+dBw loudspeakers.
Most people simply don't want or need this.
I'm with you on this rob, but being able to turn it up to decent levels shouldn't be over looked. Plus, all things need to be put into context. In my room which is 5.2m x 4.2m x 2.6m, the 9" drivers are more than enough to move the furniture. Didn't get any complaints from either neighbour. Luckily external walls are 600mm thick.
 
I was joking but..live levels are LOUD but then again larger speakers can do loud without actually sounding loud such is their over spec and ease/effortless nature..
 
Meh.

Just do what I did; buy a pair of Meridian DSPs and enjoy the music w/out all the usual audiophile sodding about.

As I said previously, DSP5500s, 7200s or 8000s would be in budget and fill very big rooms easily and IMHO, the 7200 / 8000s look nice too.
 
Of course, s = ut + 1/2a*t^2. That makes the proposition of small woofers even worse then.
I wouldn't say so, 30% of time difference makes for the proposition "less bad" than if it would have been 50%. I appreciate your explanation, but I think it has more than one error in the calculation.

Would you elaborate this sentence:

Doubling the acceleration halves the time needed to cover the same distance, but in this case of four times the distance, the 8" woofer actually needs to have four times the acceleration to produce the same SPL.

with some equations? On first glance it seems to me that the conclusion is not correct, but I may be wrong.

I agree on principle that bigger guns = > better sound, but I have not heard a big enough sample of speakers to date.

How would a pair of horns work in that space? I really like the looks of some of those and I guess they would fit in perfectly from aesthetics point of view.

Klipsh Scala's can be beautiful depending on rest the furniture, AG horns are lovely, Oris Swings can be as well. Just a thought.
 
hi Nic

I agree..

he should get some of these -

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/beolab5

not even joking.

they have room correction designed by the Tact team - they scan the room and correct it. With a big glass wall it's a good shout.

they look plenty ''lawrence'' - so fit the bill from this point of view aswell.

...with 2500 watts on tap, they probably make our Darth tremble behind his light sabre too..
They sound awesome too.

Chris
 
I've had long chats with the guys at Meridian. They are based near the guy who looks after my cars. But as yet, not found the time to visit.
 
IMHO the 7200 and 8000 are amazing in both sound and looks. The same guy is selling some DSP8000's at £14K, these are £40K new. Sell the naim/weiss kit, put about £7K towards it and that you sorted! - for life probably :)

Also, from what i see hes a trader, so worth talking to him about a dem.

The 8000's Have 6x 8" driver each, bet they could teach big Tannoys a thing or two :D
 


advertisement


Back
Top