Del monaco
Del Monaco
That’s always the rub. More risk doing this.
Naim December price hike
- Thread starter Mynamemynaim
- Start date
I hadn't realised quite how much Naim costs
It makes old Nait 1 and 2 prices look quite reasonable
To look at it the other way round the Nait 1 and 2 make the latest prices look ridiculous.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
As I did. A few years ago it was quite a fun place to inhabit. Now it’s sterile, corporate, devoid of any soul and where dissension is simply not tolerated. And the funny thing is, after decades of hanging around in there as a NAIM devotee, I am now much more open to alternatives. When my CDX2 dies the plan had always been to replace with a NDX 2, now that’s far from certain.
Having worked with Naim a few year ago as a consultant, there prices may be justified.
All parts coming into Naim are not nasty cheap rip off parts, and all are very well put through inspection.
The Naim R&D team is huge there is lots of skills there and there processes to make a good product is second to none. This work can cost a small fortune and lots and lots of tooling costs.
Then we start production after extreme testing and brutally done at times (poor things) not just function but heavy on producing a safe product.
Then we move on to listening test of to a group of audio buffs that you will never hear off doing testing blind and knob bashing stuff.
Then to marketing adverts etc, reviews this is bloody expensive.
Now to calculate possible profit margin and costs, the export price as the UK can not support a company as large as Naim so exports are the key. Now retailer and export need to see the same prices all over the planet regarding RRP , or the customer will buy from Joe Blogs.
Exporter want there pound of flesh and there sweeteners this costs money also.
So lets say for example (these are not correct just examples) cost of parts £100, cost of inspection and testing £100, profit needed £200, then marketing oh boy is the expensive £400, export mark up £800 the dealers mark up £1600 now you can see why big companies making good sound solid products will sell a lot more than you think is a fair price. So £3500 + tax is very easy to get too.
I am not saying this fair it is not but wages here are silly compared to poorer countries and we all want well made safe kit. So you have to pay for it some how.
Small companies can't afford the marketing and the export mark up so we sell manly in the UK or on line only, this keeps the price lower and allows us to use better than normal components at a high price. But it also limits our profits so we grow very slowly.
The R&D lads at Naim are very good but they have to produce the Naim sound this is not to my taste but it a lot better than junk from China, a lot better and much better than some of the junk over priced from the USA.
So if you want value for money buy from a UK company that does not have a massive marketing and export side to it.
Other companies that appear to be British are in fact made and assembled in far away countries, like Cambridge Audio, some buy pre assembled PCB to fit into chassis so beware. I like the stuff I make to last longer than a few short years.
All parts coming into Naim are not nasty cheap rip off parts, and all are very well put through inspection.
The Naim R&D team is huge there is lots of skills there and there processes to make a good product is second to none. This work can cost a small fortune and lots and lots of tooling costs.
Then we start production after extreme testing and brutally done at times (poor things) not just function but heavy on producing a safe product.
Then we move on to listening test of to a group of audio buffs that you will never hear off doing testing blind and knob bashing stuff.
Then to marketing adverts etc, reviews this is bloody expensive.
Now to calculate possible profit margin and costs, the export price as the UK can not support a company as large as Naim so exports are the key. Now retailer and export need to see the same prices all over the planet regarding RRP , or the customer will buy from Joe Blogs.
Exporter want there pound of flesh and there sweeteners this costs money also.
So lets say for example (these are not correct just examples) cost of parts £100, cost of inspection and testing £100, profit needed £200, then marketing oh boy is the expensive £400, export mark up £800 the dealers mark up £1600 now you can see why big companies making good sound solid products will sell a lot more than you think is a fair price. So £3500 + tax is very easy to get too.
I am not saying this fair it is not but wages here are silly compared to poorer countries and we all want well made safe kit. So you have to pay for it some how.
Small companies can't afford the marketing and the export mark up so we sell manly in the UK or on line only, this keeps the price lower and allows us to use better than normal components at a high price. But it also limits our profits so we grow very slowly.
The R&D lads at Naim are very good but they have to produce the Naim sound this is not to my taste but it a lot better than junk from China, a lot better and much better than some of the junk over priced from the USA.
So if you want value for money buy from a UK company that does not have a massive marketing and export side to it.
Other companies that appear to be British are in fact made and assembled in far away countries, like Cambridge Audio, some buy pre assembled PCB to fit into chassis so beware. I like the stuff I make to last longer than a few short years.
It's just another Naim bashing thread. To be fair there hasn't been one for nearly a month so the poor saps here must have been struggling before having this new thread to vent their displeasure over a brand they claim to never want to own anyway. It's weird behaviour, but is definitely a thing so best let them get on with it!
NO it is not it a marketing exercise by Naim he he
Oh just a note Naim have banned me from there forum because of my dislike of bullies.
Explained and justified are not the same thing. You could have a huge R&D department devoted to making a better pencil but are real world results likely to justify the cost? Just how much better can an amplifier be?
And spending thousands on advertising helps promote the brand but it does not increase value for the end users. Seen any Rega adverts recently? Advertising is a perfect example of how stupid people are. It puts the cost of the product up while adding nothing to the quality but if companies don't do it their products are perceived as being lower quality! Mad.
S.B.O. Sir
Mynamemynaim
38yrs a Naim owner
It's a bit short sighted to dismiss this as another naim bashing thread
Many who have contributed already actually love naim and naim derived amps (Avondale / hackernap etc)
What has annoyed me is the parent company (focal) seem hell bent on milking Naim and their reputation with customers for every last penny
IMO naim along with others ,have grown though having an upgrade path
You could start with a basic and relatively inexpensive system and improve it in stages as money allowed
The high entry point and huge leaps in cost between products has pretty much finished that idea.
When all the hedge fund managers and CEOs have had there fill...what's left for the ordinary enthusiast
Many who have contributed already actually love naim and naim derived amps (Avondale / hackernap etc)
What has annoyed me is the parent company (focal) seem hell bent on milking Naim and their reputation with customers for every last penny
IMO naim along with others ,have grown though having an upgrade path
You could start with a basic and relatively inexpensive system and improve it in stages as money allowed
The high entry point and huge leaps in cost between products has pretty much finished that idea.
When all the hedge fund managers and CEOs have had there fill...what's left for the ordinary enthusiast
I had to google S.B.O. but all I see is small bowel obstruction! :0.
Nothing. And this is the entire point. All of the people who talk about wonderful Naim are talking about a different company that existed in a different time. The Naim run run for and by enthusiasts no longer exists, it is gone. The Naim marketing department want you to think that's still who they are but it's just smoke and mirrors.
It's just like Tannoy. The brand still exists but none of the people responsible for the products and ethos are there anymore and the people calling the shots have a totally different agenda. So Tannoy is not Tannoy. And Naim are not Naim.
So what? Many audio companies have been run for the enthusiast and they are no more. Naim may be moving towards a market we don’t like, but it’s up to them and there are plenty of their older products in circulation for us to enjoy. At the end of the day they are still in business and making money, that is the prime aim of most companies so not sure why they should be singled out for criticism. I personally cannot see the value in a Range Rover, but I’m not about to slag them off as they are very successful. It’s just the way of the world… not everything can stay the same forever.
Eyebroughty
JohnC
However Rega are still mostly what Rega used to be
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I don’t think it’s a bashing thread. It think it’s a vfm question. Are they really worth the pricing when they are compared to other hifi? For me, they are a good, solid British brand with heritage and were an excellent entry into my hi fi journey.
However Rega are still mostly what Rega used to be
Yes, because they are still run by the guy who started it. It's almost inevitable that Rega will slowly change when Roy steps down or dies, that's just what happens. Once the people in control have little or no emotional investment or scruples about how the company runs all bets are off. Even people who have been there many years can change their values when the pound signs flash up. We can do things the old way or you can live in a bigger house and go nicer holidays.
There are still great value products being made in the UK by people who care but they don't run glossy adverts so their products are too cheap so few people buy them! ;0)
I don't think there is any question, the value for money of Naim products is terrible! Is that Naim bashing? It should be.
I had one of those last month (a twisted intestine to be precise) Not a pleasant experience at all. An operation and five nights in hospital. Was nice to get home and turn on the hifi for a few weeks of listening while off work but hang on, my 552 has decided to lose the right hand channel this time. Oh well, loose women it is then