DimitryZ
pfm Member
I will try...I remember that you first calculated 2 meters, but then reduced it to 1.5
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-for-dacs-than-s-pdif-or-usb.7105/post-162132
Denafrips Ares II thoughts
- Thread starter cporton
- Start date
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-for-dacs-than-s-pdif-or-usb.7105/post-162132
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
I have no interest. If he was right, it would all sound the same, but it dosent.
But both of your posts do help me with my insomnia sometimes, so you both have your place in my world for sure. Mucho love.
mansr
Objectionist
Oh, that. That calculation applies, as I stated there, if the DAC is providing the clock. However, no actual implementations are done this way, instead opting for the simpler (but inferior) solution of placing the clock in the I2S transmitter. This is also stated in that post. For the commercially available products using I2S between boxes, the cable length is only limited by signal degradation, and this shouldn't be a problem until you exceed 10 m, probably more.
DimitryZ
pfm Member
Got it. I stand corrected.
Musicraft
Trade: Musicraft
So far in the main a ND5 XS 2 and on the odd occasion for CD playback using a BD-S1900 as a transport.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
The guy has a 20k Dac and uses a £2k Naim ND5XS2 dac/streamer as a streamer?
How do you use the DDC thing as the NAIM does not have a USB out?
Heckyman
pfm Member
The Denafrips Hermes and Gaia DDCs have USB, AES, Co-ax, Optical inputs. The Mutec is another reclocker which is not only USB.
DimitryZ
pfm Member
Perhaps an inexpensive way to check if the built-in DDC is good is this external DDC:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08HN3V...abc_DDJKHT20X52A6J6KKAQT?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
If you feel there is an improvement, perhaps a more expensive DDC is worthwhile in your situation.
In my system, it's identical to the Musician Pegasus' USB input. Other users feel there's an improvement.
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08HN3V...abc_DDJKHT20X52A6J6KKAQT?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
If you feel there is an improvement, perhaps a more expensive DDC is worthwhile in your situation.
In my system, it's identical to the Musician Pegasus' USB input. Other users feel there's an improvement.
Last edited:
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
Ah I see, so it can input as coaxial and output as USB?
I’ll definitely have to try one of these out, although it will most likely be the Innuos one as they obtainable on home demo.
I trust your opinion on these having gone through the trialing on all of this! I think as you mentioned, the question will boil down to ‘how much of a difference does it make and is it comparable to the cost’. This would naturally relay to the kit being used with it etc. But by the sounds of it, even 4k streamers and dacs could and do benefit.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
Or input as coax and output I2S...
Musicraft
Trade: Musicraft
Just to be clear we’re using a ND5 XS 2 and a BD-S1900. ND5 XS 2 BNC Coaxial Digital Out > into Coaxial Digital GAIA DDC input > GAIA DDC Coaxial Digital Out and at the moment into the Coaxial Digital input of a Terminator II DAC.
From Denafrips -
We do not limit the GAIA to process only the USB signal. We raised the bar. The GAIA accepts USB, SPDIF (Coax, TOSLink, AES/EBU) inputs. These digital signal data-stream will be FIFO buffered and reclocked via the Precision Oven Controlled Crystal Oscillator OCXO. This process eliminates the jitter to negligible level, ensuring the digital output signal are free from the harmful jitter noise. The use of OCXO plays an important role here.
https://www.denafrips.com/gaia
Our first client is using an Esoteric K-01 and a laptop into the GAIA DDC > D-02X DAC.
Our other client will be using an Auralic G2.1 > GAIA DDC > DAVE DAC.
clownfish
It's all in the details
If you really want to sell the Naim try an Allo DigiOne Sig with Shanti supply. You may find you are quite happy to part company. I use this device and am consistently astonished at what it pulls out. I have ‘compared’ with the ND5XS2 and didn’t find it lacking but do have to say it was not a back to back demo. I use with Rune and ROPIEE. And FWIW I run it into a Qutest.
If you do try it, I would be really interested to hear what your impressions are.
For some reason when I read various threads about DDC the reports of big improvements with DDC forget to mention that their source is not USB or a noisy computer directly attached.
So why not spend the money on a better DAC with a good USB implementation and or a better streamer. The cost of the Gaia or the £2,599 Innous Phonix does not sound like money well spend to me.
The Terminator Plus was on my list, but I ended up buying a Holo Audio May DAC It has a good UBS implementation and I use a Steamer that also has a good USB output. So no DDC for me.
So why not spend the money on a better DAC with a good USB implementation and or a better streamer. The cost of the Gaia or the £2,599 Innous Phonix does not sound like money well spend to me.
The Terminator Plus was on my list, but I ended up buying a Holo Audio May DAC It has a good UBS implementation and I use a Steamer that also has a good USB output. So no DDC for me.
nostromo
pfm Member
A few months ago I was all for the Venus II and then I came across Godensound's Holo Audio May review. Which set me on a path towards the May.... I'd love to know how you find the May DAC and how you decided on this,... What other DACs did you consider. I would value your review of the May.... as a fellow FDAC sponsor, I feel we have similar tastes and requirements.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
I would definitely try it if I had the chance, I am definitely not about making judgement before hearing something, but afer my experience with a Rpi, I probably wont want to invest money into one of those.
I believe Heckyman has had a few dacs running with the DDC, including the May and found differences when using the DDC even with that, but was using an Mac Mini unlike a dedicated streamer. I think the general consensus has been, it still makes a difference but that difference is smaller on higher end Dacs and streamers, so the pound per found value balance has to be accessed by the user. I agree though, Dac and streamer comes first.
I have a La Voce S3 which is below the May financially but still pretty damn pricey. I should be able to get an Innous Phoenix in the future to trial, so will report back.
clownfish
It's all in the details
It’s great how we are all so different. I do get the appeal of streamer like the Naim that is attractive and gives great results. However, given the pace at which digital moves and the investment required in software to build a great app I’m much more comfortable with the open solution of Pi/Allo Sig/Roon… and IMO similar quality output for comparatively small change. Im also comforted by knowing that if Roon or any other s/w goes away I can flash the card with another o/s.
When you talk about your previous experience I’m not sure whether you are referring to output quality or ease use. If it’s the latter ROPIEE is the best Pi s/w I’ve used. It just works without hassle.
I’d like to say I’ve reduced the amount of h/w significantly too, but given the size of the Shanti that wouldn’t be true
!Enjoying your journey from afar.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
It’s great how we are all so different. I do get the appeal of streamer like the Naim that is attractive and gives great results. However, given the pace at which digital moves and the investment required in software to build a great app I’m much more comfortable with the open solution of Pi/Allo Sig/Roon… and IMO similar quality output for comparatively small change. Im also comforted by knowing that if Roon or any other s/w goes away I can flash the card with another o/s.
When you talk about your previous experience I’m not sure whether you are referring to output quality or ease use. If it’s the latter ROPIEE is the best Pi s/w I’ve used. It just works without hassle.
I’d like to say I’ve reduced the amount of h/w significantly too, but given the size of the Shanti that wouldn’t be true
Enjoying your journey from afar.
A lot of merit in that, I do also worry that there may be a constant requirement to upgrade large expensive boxes as technology goes on, but thankfully, it hasnt really happened yet since I have been 'streaming'. I imagine it will though. The likes of Innouos appeal as their new 2.0 operating system looks pretty fantastic and on par with Roon.
I like the simplicity of one box, and for something that dosent require any real input from me . Also I need to like the look of it!
The rPI I was harsh, and harshly undetailed, very robotic with lots of sibilance (in comparison to the NAIM). It was on loan from me from a audiophile who built it and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. I connect harshness with 'noise' , as when I remove elements of it in the form of LPS's or IFI Quiet powers, it gets reduced. However I was using more budget DACs back then, so I cant entirely comment as systems have moved on etc. The operation and stability of it seemed fine through Roon, no issues there at all.
I'd definitely would like to try one again for sure, but I wont invest any money in to one, so it would have to be a loaner!
Subito
pfm Member
In America the Schiit Bifrost 2 is $699, plus it has a five-year warranty, is made in America, has brilliant customer support, offers a 15 day home trial, and is designed by one of the world’s legendary digital audio engineers (Mike Moffat). All of that carries a lot of weight for me when considering a DAC upgrade.
I am currently revelling in hearing the Ares II DAC with Lavardin Technologies ISX Reference amplifier and QLN Prestige 3's loudspeakers
From Denafrips -
The ARES II DAC is built with a sole objective in mind - to reproduce digital music to analoguelike sound for today’s audiophile. The use of advanced hardware design, powerful digital processing technology, combined with the know-how of recording and reproduction experiences, ARES II DAC achieved the digital music playback goals - musical expression.
The architecture uses the most primitive R-2R DAC technology, it is probably the most suitable architecture to reproduce music. Despite the test results of various measurements and parameters of the conventional R-2R DAC may usually not as good as the mainstream integrated DAC chip, but the sound of R-2R DAC, is often filled with emotion, relaxing, high resolution, and addictive musicality that most of the common mainstream integrated DAC chips cannot match.