Well said
Subs n Lows
- Thread starter IWC Doppel
- Start date
Mike Hanson
Trying to understand...
My first sub was the GoldenEar SuperSub X, which I purchased to use with my Royd RR3. It worked nicely with that, but not so well with the Klipsch Cornwall IV. That's why I upgraded to the HT/1510, which REL explicitly recommends for those speakers. I've had it for a few weeks now, and it works really well.
Amber Audio
This is the Day
Used subs since late 80’s when I got my own gaff, wouldn’t have a serious system without them. I’ve used DSP/EQ for a long time graduating from the various suck it and see methods. Find ProAc stand-mounts and REL a great match, had various combos always with heavy R2 stands.
Recently I’ve had a few different SVS models, definitely a decent alternative to REL and BK, the phone App is really useful even if you have DSP already, being able to sit and alter settings in real time is great.
Recently I’ve had a few different SVS models, definitely a decent alternative to REL and BK, the phone App is really useful even if you have DSP already, being able to sit and alter settings in real time is great.
In my case the Minidsp receives the full range input, I apply high and low pass filters to suit the P3s and T5x combination, then use REW to produce filters for the bass (30-100Hz) region. So the Minidsp output to the T5x is filtered to control the bass response in the room.
It has been mentioned that the Minidsp delays the signal but all I can say is that for the speaker positioning and room, I cannot determine any impact.
Only if you separate incoming signal and run part of it through MiniDSP and the other was not processed , if full range signal going through and DSP applied to the portion of the signal there shouldn’t be any latency between both unless applied by yourself
evand
Just press play
2x PV1D subs used alongside ATC SCM 20-2A. No highpass, in fact ATC recommend against it.
For my SCM100ASLT‘s I had no sub in the mix, but had floor to ceiling chunk traps in all corners. I’m likely to add a sub when I deploy them again because it goes a long way to dealing with LF response issues in a typical smallish room
For my SCM100ASLT‘s I had no sub in the mix, but had floor to ceiling chunk traps in all corners. I’m likely to add a sub when I deploy them again because it goes a long way to dealing with LF response issues in a typical smallish room
I do, it complements a pair of excellent Ergo IX's. It adds a level of deep bass that provides a subtle improvement. The sub is DIY with a plate amp with DSP and the sub set up was tailored using a calibrated microphone.
As to any latency issues (since the mains are directly off the amp and the sub only uses DSP) I imagine that since we are only considering low frequencies than any latency in the sub response in insignificant.
As to any latency issues (since the mains are directly off the amp and the sub only uses DSP) I imagine that since we are only considering low frequencies than any latency in the sub response in insignificant.
Mike Hanson
Trying to understand...
I had a thought. I'm running a MiniDSP 4x10, which has both analog and digital outputs. I never considered it before, but I could feed it S/PDIF from my streamer, and use the DSP to split highs and lows. I could feed to lows out as an analog signal to the sub, and feed the highs out as S/PDIF digital into my DAC. That could retain the quality from my DAC for the main speakers, and be "good enough" for the subs. I may give this a shot at some point.
IWC Doppel
pfm Member
Oh by the way I use a number of subs and a 10 channel DSP and run the signal feeds in in parallel so the main channels are unaffected by DSP processing and then filter the DSP input for each channel and phase align and EQ the output sub group. So you only add the missing frequencies to the mains but don't filter them directly, just the sub group
Unless you need to delay your mains then phase alignment is relatively straight froward with enough Mic work, the only difficulty is if the sub group phase shift differs from the mains when operating together and you just choose the best compromise or get into allpass filters
Unless you need to delay your mains then phase alignment is relatively straight froward with enough Mic work, the only difficulty is if the sub group phase shift differs from the mains when operating together and you just choose the best compromise or get into allpass filters
Darren
So gentle when he tries to understand.
I'm so sorry, every time a sub thread comes along I say the, same things. I know it's dull.....
But I think that a decent, modern REL sub (or similar) is one the the best value for money upgrades you can make. One was ace, now I have an identical stereo pair and they are stunning. My system is full range(who wouldn't want that?), it has huge slam and bass authority that I've never heard from speakers on their own. The dynamics are hard hitting and tight. My system has a level of flexibility that I could never have otherwise imagined: rock is hard hitting, dance bass lines make my lounge sound like a club and live recordings are served with a huge, deep sound stage.
I have room modes like anyone else, but I don't want dsp and found integrating the subs an interesting project that hardly took any time at all.
brumjam
pfm Member
I use four subs when listening to music in my multichannel system. S/PDIF output is sent from my Trinnov to a miniDSP which feeds the four subs. The subs were optimised using MSO software, but for a single seat you can get excellent results using REW’s “aligned sum” feature. The key to integration with mains is the phase alignment through the crossover region as has already been mentioned. Again, REW has tools to help with this.
I use a DIY cabinet 15" JBL driver from a pair of old 4331B's as sub driven by a bridged Rotel amp. Main speakers are KEF R100's, driven by a very cheap second hand Onkyo HT receiver that also acts as crossover, set at 90 Hz, both HP and LP.
Don't believe any talks that you can set up a sub system with just your ears. I have tried it, it doesn't work. When you add a sub you basically design a completely new loudspeaker system. You need to measure, tweak and measure again. Place the main speakers where they sound the best. Try the sub alone in a number of positions and determine by measurement which gives the most even frequency response. Now connect the main speakers again and tweak the crossover (start at about 80 Hz), phase and levels until you get the most seamless response. Enjoy!
I use old, 00's technology for measurements, other can inform what's in use today. REW software, I think it's called, and a mic is what people use?
Don't believe any talks that you can set up a sub system with just your ears. I have tried it, it doesn't work. When you add a sub you basically design a completely new loudspeaker system. You need to measure, tweak and measure again. Place the main speakers where they sound the best. Try the sub alone in a number of positions and determine by measurement which gives the most even frequency response. Now connect the main speakers again and tweak the crossover (start at about 80 Hz), phase and levels until you get the most seamless response. Enjoy!
I use old, 00's technology for measurements, other can inform what's in use today. REW software, I think it's called, and a mic is what people use?
Same, I added a BK sub recently to my proac d2's. I definitely prefer it with the sub. I havent got the knobs turned up that much, so it adds body to the music. It's improved the sound at low listening levels more than anything.
Well, this is true, however there is the matter of personal taste. My friend, sadly no longer with us, was a fan of "bass at all frequencies" and he was always happier when I turned the bass up. After he'd left, i turned it back down to what *I* like. His system featured enormous Tannoys with 4 x 15" HPDs that completely overwhelmed any room smaller than the stateroom of the QE2, but that was what he liked.
Mike Hanson
Trying to understand...
That's what I thought after my first attempt, but I've done it three times by ear now, and I've been happy with the results. I have a musician's ear, an audiophile's sensibilities, and I'm very technically inclined, so I guess that combination makes it possible.
music fiend
life lusting
I use a pair of REL R528SEs with Monitor Audio PL100 II stand mounts.
These subs have 12" carbon fiber drives and I simply love the end result... So much that listening to music without the subs on seems wrong.
These subs have 12" carbon fiber drives and I simply love the end result... So much that listening to music without the subs on seems wrong.
Mike Hanson
Trying to understand...
I think it's less about quality, and more about character. Both my GoldenEar and REL were similarly priced, and both quite admirable in their abilities. Regardless, the GoldenEar didn't match the character of my Klipsch Cornwall as well as the REL. If your speakers are very good, then all you really want from your sub is that bottom octave. All the rest can be served up by your main drivers.
unit
pfm Member
I agree Mike. The Focals are very fast, and although it is time aligned (thanks MiniDSP), the bass notes overhang slightly on the REL. Once I sell my other speakers I'm going to try out a T7x as they are allegedly more nimble. Lets see…